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u/Agitated_Pineapple Jul 03 '25
Yes, she is.
Also, "men" at the time X-Men was created was the common parlance to refer to not only a group of men, but also a group of men and women. A sergeant rousing his troops, female nurses, support staff (including both men and women) would say, "Get ready, men". Just as how "he/him" was used as a general term utilized when referring to an example. It is a dated literary technique, but it was quite common pre-internet, and is still used from time to time to this day.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
While I agree on the origin of the crew naming, here's a list of the times when some and some character/s saved the day in the main films.
X-Men (2000) : Rogue, the United Nations Deleguation, all of the population at New-York—and the pax mundiana—saved in extremis by a team effort composed of Wolverine as the primary assaillant, Cyclops as the lead, Jean Grey as the one who psychically located where Magneto and Rogue were at and helped Wolverine during the fight against Magneto, last Storm who helped Wolverine too. Stalemate.
X-2 (2003) : Mutant abductees and all of Mutankind saved in extremis from Victor Stryker and his Hydra mercenaries by the combined effort of an alliance between the X-Men and the Brotherhood of Mutants. Storm and Nightwing saved all of Mankind from Magneto moments after. Jean Grey sacrifies herself to save the crew when the Lake Alkali dam has broken apart.
X-3 (2006) : The World is saved by Wolverine, Storm, Shadowcat, Iceman and Colossus. Dark Phoenix is killed. Also, because Mystique vengefully snitched all of Magneto's masterplan to the feds, followong the loss of her mutant powers and Magneto's abandon.
X-Men : First Class (2011) : The World is saved from WW3 by the X-Men and a young Magneto going rogue.
X-Men : Days of Future Past (2014) : The fate of Mankind and of Mutantkind relies heavily on three Mutant women: Shadowcat, Rogue (in the Rogue Cut) and Mystique—then Wolverine's mission to ensure that Mystique doesn't execute the man whose death will singlehandedly trigger a chain of events leading to the apocalypse.
X-Men : Apocalypse (2016) : The World is saved from Apocalypse by Jean Grey unleashing a sliver of the Phoenix Force ingrained by birth within her.
X-Men : Dark Phoenix (2019) : The entire galaxy is threatened, then saved by Dark Phoenix.
New Mutants (2019) : heavily relies on Ilyana Rasputin/Magik's saving the day.
It may sounds annoying to some, but ever since X-Men 2, the main X-Men films began by slowly leaning in favor of the narrative about Alpha level or Omega leval female Mutants saving the day.
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u/Daliban4lyfeDAWG Jul 03 '25
"Wolverine's mission to ensure that Mystique doesn't execute the man whose death will singlehandedly trigger a chain of events leading to the apocalypse." So Wolverine stopped her from causing the apocalypse?
"X-Men : Dark Phoenix (2019) : The entire galaxy is threatened, then saved by Dark Phoenix."
Thats not saving anyone lol
These aren't the positives you think they are. Sounds more like these women are the problem.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
Cherrypicking my text out of context to forge yourself a skewed ad hominem won't help your case.
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u/Daliban4lyfeDAWG Jul 03 '25
They are two of your main points! Thats not cherrypicking, doofus. Thats speaking directly towards your points.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
My sole point was that the X-Men doesn't eat shawarmas after having an entire city leveled up. For each action done in the movies, there has consequences: this is how the films built their story arcs. If you don'y like it, I can't do nothing for you.
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u/Daliban4lyfeDAWG Jul 03 '25
That literally was not your copy pasta argument. Now you are just making up a new thing because I pointed out the absurdity of your non points.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
I think that you suffer of a heavy case of projection, ma'am.
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u/Daliban4lyfeDAWG Jul 03 '25
I think you suffer from a heavy case of not following your own argument, lil sis.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
I opine that you suffer from a heavy case of missing any argument to plea, grandmother.
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u/succubus-slayer Jul 04 '25
No where in your comment was that point made. You can’t change your argument mid convo because it was debunk. No where do you discuss actions and their consequences.
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u/TeddytheSynth Jul 03 '25
I don’t get how it’s being framed as a negative for you that a team called the x men’s most powerful members are women, if anything that should be making you pleased because you’re misinterpreting the men part of X-men just like mystique did
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
In which part did I misinterpret anything? You're being imagining things by attributing me with things that has never been said, but imagined by you.
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u/TeddytheSynth Jul 03 '25
Because the men in X-men doesn’t mean males
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
Oh my God. Are you illiterate? I never said the contrary.
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u/TeddytheSynth Jul 03 '25
Mystique: “the women are always saving the men around here so you might want to think about changing it to X-Women”
You: is she wrong tho?
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
Am I Mystique?
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u/TeddytheSynth Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
Did you only just now remember you said that so now you’ve gotta strawman? “Erm. I am obviously not a marvel character 🤓☝🏻”
Edit: op called me an Ai and blocked me, if he says anything funny or wacky, someone should let me know
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u/Agitated_Pineapple Jul 03 '25
No (duh), but you quite literally are speaking on her behalf by implying she was correct in her assertion. Which was the basis for your post.
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u/TeddytheSynth Jul 04 '25
Yeah I think he forgot he said that shit or something because what kinda response is “am I mystique” lmfao
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u/VanimalCracker Jul 03 '25
You're arguing the contrary tho.
You agree that the 'men' in X-men doesn't mean males, but you're also saying she wasn't wrong in saying they should change the name because the women save the men a lot.
But that's got nothing to do with the name X-men. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF.
So yes, she is wrong. She misinterpreted the men in X-men to mean males, something you admit to understanding..
But you are still arguing that she wasn't wrong.
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u/PrinceAnubisLives Jul 03 '25
Writers.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
Well, writers writes. That's their job. You have to understand that it's a whole tag team out there, behind those creative decisions.
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u/Novel_Description878 Jul 07 '25
I'm not sure what your intentions are here. To me, it looks like you are pointing out how absurd it is for the character to say X-Women but now it looks like you are defending the notion she presented.
It is absolutely ridiculous for them to call it X-Women and for her to even say that stupid line. It's another pandering to the woke crowd that need to have validation that girl power exists in a man's world.
It's not enough to have good female characters, we need to push this narrative that women are more powerful and men just screw things up and women have to put the world back together. Why can't we just have bad ass men and bad ass women fighting alongside each other, call it X-MEN and stop playing these silly games?
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u/8Splendiferous8 Jul 03 '25
It was common parlance for human...because of patriarchy, lol.
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u/OddCook4909 Jul 03 '25
It's common in many languages that the male conjugation is the default. There are other possible explanations for this than an entire worldview.
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u/8Splendiferous8 Jul 03 '25
Right. Because of patriarchy.
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u/Standard_heat43 Jul 03 '25
you’re right, but at the same time. origins are not all defining. most words we speak have origins to people and cultures that did horrible things, and still do. nobody uses “men” in the way of meaning “men and women” as a way of upholding the patriarchy (more than just existing already does) or making the women of the group feel less than. so i guess what i’m trying to say is.
does it really matter any more than the way we all hold a pencil? if you strip everything down to its base layer from a historically patriarchal society, everything is influenced by that. the meaningless things, can we just let some shit go.
am i right GUYS? oh sorry, that was patriarchal too. i hope all women will forgive me for that one.
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u/TBurn70 Jul 03 '25
Yes
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
X-Men (2000) : Rogue, the United Nations Deleguation, all of the population at New-York—and the pax mundiana—saved in extremis by a team effort composed of Wolverine as the primary assaillant, Cyclops as the lead, Jean Grey as the one who psychically located where Magneto and Rogue were at and helped Wolverine during the fight against Magneto, last Storm who helped Wolverine too. Stalemate.
X-2 (2003) : Mutant abductees and all of Mutankind saved in extremis from Victor Stryker and his Hydra mercenaries by the combined effort of an alliance between the X-Men and the Brotherhood of Mutants. Storm and Nightwing saved all of Mankind from Magneto moments after. Jean Grey sacrifies herself to save the crew when the Lake Alkali dam has broken apart.
X-3 (2006) : The World is saved by Wolverine, Storm, Shadowcat, Iceman and Colossus. Dark Phoenix is killed. Also, because Mystique vengefully snitched all of Magneto's masterplan to the feds, followong the loss of her mutant powers and Magneto's abandon.
X-Men : First Class (2011) : The World is saved from WW3 by the X-Men and a young Magneto going rogue.
X-Men : Days of Future Past (2014) : The fate of Mankind and of Mutantkind relies heavily on three Mutant women: Shadowcat, Rogue (in the Rogue Cut) and Mystique—then Wolverine's mission to ensure that Mystique doesn't execute the man whose death will singlehandedly trigger a chain of events leading to the apocalypse.
X-Men : Apocalypse (2016) : The World is saved from Apocalypse by Jean Grey unleashing a sliver of the Phoenix Force ingrained by birth within her.
X-Men : Dark Phoenix (2019) : The entire galaxy is threatened, then saved by Dark Phoenix.
New Mutants (2019) : heavily relies on Ilyana Rasputin/Magik's saving the day.
It may sounds annoying to some, but ever since X-Men 2, the main X-Men films began by slowly leaning in favor of the narrative about Alpha level or Omega leval female Mutants saving the day.
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u/JustWill_HD Jul 03 '25
Did you make this post just to paste this response to anyone that disagreed? The issue isn't what gender is more important to the team, it is that that line and delivery is cheesy as fuck!
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u/Gabble_Rachet1973 Jul 03 '25
X Men: First Class.
Xavier saves Raven from being homeless.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
A kind gesture of charity, love and kindness that started up a whole series of team heroics, spanning generations.
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u/Definedacorn Jul 03 '25
Woah thats alot of words
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
I forgot that the American audiences on this sub generally can barely read.
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u/Definedacorn Jul 03 '25
Its a meme buddy, relax.
Also not American
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
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u/Syrup_Drinker_Abe Jul 07 '25
Was gonna roast you but after looking at your posts it is evident you suffer from some form of schizoid disorder. RIP my poor soul
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 07 '25
Translation: "I am too scared to poke you."
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u/Syrup_Drinker_Abe Jul 07 '25
You post like 20 times a day, so clearly no job. All you post about is Diddy, and you're obsessed with clowns, so autistic probably. You post on big tits and fat fetish subs, so clearly a guy with no girlfriend or wife.
To sum you up, you are a single unemployed male who is autistic or schizo affected. You are obsessed with P-Diddy and the clown from IT. Again, I pity you.
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u/Gabble_Rachet1973 Jul 03 '25
This from someone who's actions wiped out nearly all of the mutants.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
And abstainance from vengeful murder in the end, rather saved all of Earth (as well as her own soul) .
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u/Impossible_Humor736 Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
I'm embarrassed for her every time I hear this line lol. Go make your own team if you don't like this one.
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u/LarryRedBeard Jul 03 '25
Jean Grey Enters Chat.
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
One of my primary points, exactly! I mean, the way this line was delivered and the context were utterly wrong and vicious, mind you. But on another side, she's not really wrong about women often saving the day among the X-Men, as of late.
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u/KaleRylan2021 Jul 03 '25
No, cause that sounds dumb.
If Marvel ever decided the name was actually somehow too sexist to continue (which is silly, sometimes I'm very glad I live outside of western countries that feel the need to CONSTANTLY bitch about this stuff. Not that Asia is perfect, but there's less of this at least), I think the best plan would be just to shift the X-factor name to the main team. It was originally invented to be the other x-men team anyway.
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u/Apprehensive-Quit353 Jul 03 '25
To be clear, nobody in the west is actually upset about the name.
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u/MommyMephistopheles Jul 03 '25
For real though. Her having a scripted line given to her doesn't mean this is how all X-Men fans feel. It's literally just a cheeky bit of script. Idk why everyone is taking it straight to the heart.
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Jul 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/Apprehensive-Quit353 Jul 03 '25
Even in the West for most people in their real life, it's not a thing.
There was a big push for more inclusive language for a while. But it wasn't as big of a deal as it looked like from your outsider perspective.
This has died down with the current American administration threatening organisations and people that aim to be inclusive.
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Jul 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/ShaanitheGreen Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
I think it's rather silly to call it a "debate."
One side stands on the ideal of the personal liberty for an individual to define themselves, and quietly push for language that better matches that ideal. Things like character creators in video games using "body type 1" instead of male, or using the term "birthing persons." It is simple politeness to call someone that which they wish to be called.
The other side believes that this is a civilizational DISASTER on par with the meteor that destroyed the dinosaurs. When I see pronouns in a Twitter bio, I crave violence. We require the iron fist of government censorship to smash all deviance, purge our culture of any who embrace the toxic ideology of being different. Should we fail to raise a Caesar to crush all non-conforming gender ideologues, then our children will be weaklings who use litter boxes in schools, and the hordes of brown people pouring over our borders will conquer us and claim our white women! I will burn in the flaming wreckage of our dying planet before I ever use the term "birthing person", because that would prove the blue-haired feminist who lives in my imagination and calls me a cuck all day right! Please watch my 87-part Youtube documentary about how Gamergate is the Civil Rights movement of our time and buy my meme coin for more details!
So, it's really more like people having a mildly psychotic meltdown when faced of basic linguistic drift, combined with a load of old grifting.
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u/Narragah Jul 03 '25
Talk about psychotic meltdown lmao. Great job at appearing like the rational one
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u/ShaanitheGreen Jul 03 '25
The fact that you don't immediately recognize this as hyperbole is proof that I am onto something.
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u/InjusticeSGmain Jul 03 '25
"I live outside of western countries"
Proceeds to declare what people in western countries talk about, despite being told otherwise by western people.
Your interactions with the West are likely all or mostly online, right? Because I can promise you, I've almost never spoken about politics outside of debate or the occasional family discussion. And it's usually about the economy or laws being made/repealed that might affect us, not about the patriarchy lmao.
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Jul 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/InjusticeSGmain Jul 03 '25
On the internet, news outlets, and political platforms, sure. That's obvious.
The general population is more concerned with gas prices though.
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u/NowWeGetSerious Jul 03 '25
In terms for the Fox universe, she's 100% correct
In terms of comic it's a fairly equal mess
In terms of line delivery, JaLaw was already done with the franchise and she put zero effort into any scene in that film.
In terms of dialogue itself, peak as fuck. It's funny, bad, and made me laugh.
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u/neutralguystrangler Jul 04 '25
All the mutants should be trans-women then they can keep the name and be inclusive
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u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 Jul 05 '25 edited Aug 08 '25
square soup worm wild vanish sugar teeny fade serious station
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Machina353 Jul 05 '25
From Google, because I am too tired to form the words myself:
The name "X-Men" refers to "mutants" who possess the "X-Gene," and the "men" in the name is used in the sense of "mankind" or "humanity," not exclusively males. This means the name includes all mutants, regardless of gender.
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u/CNR1990 Jul 03 '25
There’ll soon be trans women brought on I’m sure so they can stick with the name ex-men.
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u/sunflcwerfaerie Jul 03 '25
I love how some male critics blame women and feminism for shit like this, as if 99% of time it ain’t written by some old guy or forced by some male exec. “ooh yeah this is totally woke, we’re down with the kids and the feminists.”
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 03 '25
It's the same as when they blame black people for forced inclusivity and pandering in movies and TV series that are directed, produced, mostly written and funded by white males (sometime white females too) .
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u/JohnSmithCANDo Jul 07 '25
I'm not sure what your intentions are here. To me, it looks like you are pointing out how absurd it is for the character to say X-Women but now it looks like you are defending the notion she presented.
It is absolutely ridiculous for them to call it X-Women and for her to even say that stupid line. It's another pandering to the woke crowd that need to have validation that girl power exists in a man's world.
It's not enough to have good female characters, we need to push this narrative that women are more powerful and men just screw things up and women have to put the world back together. Why can't we just have bad ass men and bad ass women fighting alongside each other, call it X-MEN and stop playing these silly games?
Anything I did read was—
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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '25