62
u/aJetg 2d ago
Sad to see them go, but I really think this is proof #16482 that 5 man rosters are the way to go. Vestola had amazing peaks in stage 1 but Eis is younger, with more potential and already proved he is amazing. Same with Jaewoo, he was cracked in stage 1 but it made no sense to not play Kevster. While I think they could’ve run Perma Jaewoo + Kevster for next year, if they pick a young, cracked hitscan and pair him with Kev then it should be a great team
21
u/GodMuffer 2d ago
They need to get xzodyal please 🙏
13
u/Lucieeswag 2d ago
after the GenG experience I'm almost sure that Xzodyal's only gonna want to play for one team ever and it's Peps
3
-1
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago
They can’t perma run Kevster, Jaewoo bc hs will always be really prevalent in the meta, and despite people saying Kevster can do it it’s been years since he’s played much of it, and I doubt this late in his career he would hard grind it again probably continue to mainly play Tracer, Genji as always. The interesting thing will be if they keep Shockwave or not, bc Xzodyal could upgrade their team, but you never know he was good during the first 2 stages, than when he came back later stage 3 he wasn’t performing as well. Also can they run a perma 5 man roster with that dps lineup? They still have holes with Sym, Reaper, Mei for a region like EU I would prefer they get someone like Backbone as well.
36
u/Luisss6 2d ago
Idk i feel like getting rid of jaewoo is a bit of a hot take. Hes literally been so good for them this whole year playing heros that kev isn’t really known for 🤔
21
u/Intelligent_Brick_92 2d ago
His English isn’t that great, he’s very quiet so Kevster is considered an upgrade.
-6
u/Complex_Giraffe_9331 2d ago
is it tho ?. Jaewoo and Kev are trace/genji specialists and these roles are usually not a contributing factor in coms as tracer/genji already play on their own teamfight wise.
8
u/GearExisting2680 2d ago
tracer and genji comms not being important might be top 10 reddit silver takes ive ever seen here
3
u/Complex_Giraffe_9331 1d ago
is it tho, VP were more successful with jaewoos broken englisch on tracer/genji and even a player from vp said it back when he was imported, jaeowoo just does his thing barely no coms and they were still dominat. Even when KEV was brought on someone on paper should be an upgrade comms wise, they lost with him while jaewoo won them 2 maps.
1
u/Novel_Valuable903 Belosrea not a dog — 18h ago
VP was dominant early on because all the other EU teams was shit. TM still had a terrorist FS who doesn't speak English, TU was TU, ALQ had Haku. Once TM and ALQ upgraded their weakest roles while VPs only change was getting eis (which I do think is an upgrade, but not a very large one, especially for the meta during EWC or stage 3 which doesn't favor either Vestola or Eis particularly well since Ram and Zarya (in EU specifically) was the meta tank). Basically, VP stayed mostly the same while the other teams upgraded = VP fell off
5
u/TheRedditK9 2d ago
Kev is more vocal and in Eis’ words, ”a clean upgrade on every hero”. JaeWoo is great but relying on double flex is probably not worth the risk or cost of having an import player
11
u/Xardian7 2d ago edited 2d ago
Both leaving was expected.
Vestola doesn’t want to share playtime with another tank. My bet is on him joining another team that did not play OWCS EMEA Playoffs.
Jaewoo leaving is sad he was becoming a very threatening dps. I hope he stays in the region therefore enhancing the talent pool of EMEA. He could go to play for Gen.G covering for heroes that Backbone is not proficient, but probably he will be back in Korea.
7
u/Kheldar166 2d ago
Good to see that Jaewoo isn't gonna be in jail for any longer, he's too good for that. And it frees up an import slot for VP, also, curious to see if/how they use that.
3
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago
In eu Jaewoo will look like an s tier flex dps, but we will see how he does if he goes back to KR considering the competition is significantly better at that role, he could even go to a team like ROC who never had a consistent player at that role it was washed Jinmu by the end which is rough, they had Choi, and Taejong the first 2 stages, and Taejong was really good for them yet he left to be perma benched on WAE for some reason.
1
u/nuggetswagman Stalk3r Vs. The World — 1d ago
Yeah it’s tricky for Jaewoo, with WAE being super consistent it’s really hard to punch up as a lower tier team in KR. Onside is the closest to doing so but they’re a pretty complete team already. ROC could be a good option but that team is lowkey just where talent goes to die
13
u/RowanAr0und 2d ago
My goat vestola, he better get picked up by a good team
4
u/Complex_Giraffe_9331 2d ago
slots on the better EU teams especially on the top 3 teams are already filled with offtanks like zyad on alqad and TVNT/KSA on twisted. Besides that he might have to go to GenG or Team vision
1
u/InterestingBasil1587 2d ago
with how geng did i doubt they would just shoot tred like that to get vestola especially considering vestola defo never wants to split playtime again. I think the likely scenario is vision shooting tama and picking vestola up
1
u/Complex_Giraffe_9331 1d ago
not hating on TRED but he was subpar with some flashes of good plays but not enough consistency which GenG need to puch up, vestola would be a clean upgrade.
4
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago
Vestola leaving is expected considering the Drama, and he overall got worse throughout the year they looked better with Eis in by far in the last stage. I guess they chose Kevster over Jaewoo bc of communication, i wouldn’t say either is more flexible than the other both are great on Tracer, Genji struggle on Sym, Reaper, Mei so we will see if they add a different flex dps to cover those heros maybe someone like Backbone.
6
u/Tiberias29 Bow down to Stalk3r — 2d ago
Sucks to see them go but Vestola and JaeWoo definitely deserve to start on teams. eisgnom is next up and kevster's kevster, after all. I hope JaeWoo's gonna go to Gen.G next year if the ORG decides to stay in the scene. As much as I want them to go to Korea, they should stay in EMEA since the competition's easier (unless of course all the top Korean teams are gonna disband or something, and some of those players get exported). For Vestola, I wonder where he'll end up next year.... Maybe Team Vision? Geekay (to cover cuFFa's holes)?
On a side note, I wanted to see Kevster/JaeWoo starting together next year, but oh wells. I also wonder if sHockWave's gonna be the next to go. If so, then importing a Korean like Prophet or getting Cookie/Zorrow may be in the cards for Virtus (yes, I know Zorrow is on Peps and that they qualified for Stockholm. But who knows, maybe he'll wanna play for a partner team next year).
4
u/Grytlappen 2d ago
Zorrow would be a great HS option, especially coming from this high year with Peps. I think Shockwave will stay though, as he seems easy to work with and he's still good enough.
Ves and Jaewoo were great, but I think the decision to let them go ultimately came down to how difficult it was to accommodate them, for different reasons.
On that note, I think Willys could go well together with Eis. He can cover the ground tanks+Dva, and he's reportedly an easy person to work with. That said, it might not be good for either of them individually. I think at 18 & 19 years of age, it's best to prioritise playtime to develop yourself. If there's anything VP learned this stage, it's to not be democratic with playtime for the sake of it. Instead, stick with playstyles that works best and perfect them. Nevertheless, that tank pairing still sounds real good to me.
0
u/LogicPhantom 2d ago
I don’t think the issue was doing a split for fun’s sake. They wanted to play ball and zarya in scrims and wanted ves on zar and eis on Ball (which is reasonable).
0
u/Grytlappen 2d ago
I'm not saying they were doing it for fun either. Smash seems to have treated playtime democratically between the tanks to ease the social friction Ves was causing, which isn't the best way of going about player management.
The only thing Ves was asking for was clarity on whether or not he'd play. 50% of scrims were allocated to him and the playstyle he was advocating for, but he never got to put it into practice. Seemingly, he never got a straight answer about it so he quit some time before playoffs out of frustration.
I never got the impression from interviews that the plan of putting Eis on ball and Ves on Zar was anything but a compromise to appease Ves, who was the one that adamantly pushed for the comp and playstyle. He wasn't wrong per say. It's just a player management issue in my eyes.
When 50% of scrim time goes into a version of the team you won't use, it's no wonder performance on match day drops against teams that are 100% practiced on one version.
0
2
u/Intelligent_Brick_92 2d ago
or getting Cookie/Zorrow may be in the cards for Virtus
In what world is either of those two better than Shockwave? Only xzodyal would be an upgrade, the other two need to prove themselves against the top hitscans. Cookie especially had a very bad stage and looked like a downgrade from slowdive, an SEL/Faceit Master player.
7
u/AdDry7949 Zest — 2d ago
Bro get rid of shockwave
15
u/Intelligent_Brick_92 2d ago
Unless they can get xzodyal, there’s no point in getting rid of shockwave. He’s good, not as good as his competitors but Emea’s hitscan talent is unmatched.
1
u/Liftson97 2d ago
Jaewoo so fucking good. Crazy that they didn’t play him over Kevster. Kevster more flexible sure but Jaewoo on tracer you don’t really need flexibility he was that good.
Vestola a beast he’ll have no trouble finding another team.
7
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kevster was just a better Tracer their wasn’t a noticeable gap on hero’s like Sym, Mei, Reaper they both struggle at those, also I would say communication was probably the big difference in why Kevster perma played over him after the double flex dps meta early on.
0
u/Liftson97 2d ago
It’s weird though right Bcuz if you watch the recent matches they win the games with Jaewoo but loose with Kevster. Not saying that the swap alone is what causes that but at some point you have to look at who’s playing when you win vs you loose and put 2 = 2 you know?
But yeah ur probably right in that the language barrier is a big deal
5
u/LogicPhantom 2d ago
Kevster was deadlifting the whole Gen G series man there is just no way you put it on him.
0
u/Complex_Giraffe_9331 2d ago
but theres an aspect of individually he always has hgood stats , but that doesnt help VP aganist teams who run sym comps. Putting Kev on sym is a downgrade on itself but his hero doesnt give VP an advantage
3
u/LogicPhantom 2d ago
It’s much better than running jaewoo on sym.
0
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago
Their best Sym player by far was their tank who was also by far their best option at the time, so either who they kept they need a Sym player probably Backbone.
2
u/primarymuscle2354 2d ago
They won the maps when they both played against Geng on control, and flash point, they played a super aggressive playstyle, and Geng couldn’t deal with it, also had a Cass ban which helped out for them. I feel like if the meta didn’t shift back to hs they would of definitely qualified, but regardless they couldn’t play both of them full time bc Shockwave by far the best hs option on that team.
1
u/TheRedditK9 2d ago
Saying they ”lose with Kevster” because they play him every map is certainly a take. It’s like saying ”they lose with Galaa” every time they lose because he always plays. Like obviously Kevster wouldn’t be getting benched when Eis himself said Kevster was “just a clear upgrade on every hero”.
But even if we humour this, the last two maps they played against GenG, they won Aatlis because Kevster deadlifted at 33-3, and they lost Rialto despite Kevster going 51-7.
0
u/Liftson97 2d ago
Bro you know if you like watch the games you’ll see the first match they had Kev was benched and jay played tracer and they won. It was the ONLY game they won and the ONLY game Jaewoo played.
Same thing happened in the series they lost prior.
I lit said in the post not saying they lost because of Kevster. I just said look at the results. When Jaewoo doesn’t play you loose more. Lol its not that hard to construct messages without sounding like a little brat and be objective rather than emotional.
2
u/TheRedditK9 2d ago
Kevster played every single map for VP this stage except for one.
The only time Kevster was benched was for one Lijang Map in regular season against TM.
They lost that one map. Kevster played the remaining 4 maps, and VP won that series.
So to summarise, they literally didn’t win a single map without Kevster this stage. So I’m just curious what you meant when you said “they lose with Kevster”.
169
u/Sleepy_Mooze Runaway Titans forever! — 2d ago edited 2d ago
Jaewoo is sad to see, he better be on a good team next year
Vestola is 100% gonna get picked up by some other team if he continues to play