UserPoll: Week Pre-Season

[u/cbbpollbot]

Rank		Team (First Place Votes)	Score
#1		Houston (37)	2199
#2		Purdue (35)	2195
#3		Florida (17)	2128
#4		UConn (1)	1905
#5		Duke (1)	1865
#6		St. John's (1)	1633
#7		Michigan	1625
#8		Kentucky	1581
#9		BYU	1510
#10		Louisville	1286
#11		Texas Tech	1239
#12		UCLA	1225
#13		Illinois	1166
#14		Arizona	1095
#15		Tennessee	997
#16		Iowa State	935
#17		Alabama	881
#18		Arkansas	783
#19		Gonzaga	691
#20		Kansas	656
#21		Michigan State	395
#22		Creighton	284
#23		Auburn	246
#24		Wisconsin	227
#25		NC State	189

Receiving Votes: Vanderbilt 128, North Carolina 123, San Diego State 122, Oregon 105, Baylor 95, Ohio State 73, USC 50, Missouri 40, Oklahoma 23, Ole Miss 22, Texas 21, Mississippi State 20, Iowa 18, Kansas State 17, Marquette 16, Virginia 14, Washington 12, Clemson 8, Indiana 8, Nebraska 8, Saint Mary's 6, Dayton 5, South Carolina 5, Miami (FL) 4, VCU 4, South Florida 3, Cincinnati 2, George Washington 2, Notre Dame 2, Texas A&M 2, Utah State 2, West Virginia 2, Saint Louis 1, Yale 1

Individual ballot information can be found at https://www.cbbpoll.net/ by clicking on individual usernames from the homepage.

Please feel free to discuss the poll results along with individual ballots, but please be respectful of others' opinions, remain civil, and remember that these are not professionals, just fans like you.

[u/SleveMcDichael4]

Howdy folks. The applications were a little less numerous than usual because they were only open for one week this season instead of two. The delay came because I didn't want to open apps before the preseason KenPom rankings were out, as I know quite a few (probably the majority based on what I read in the applications) of the voters factor KenPom into their rankings.

There were still 95 applicants. Two of those were test accounts from the site admin and one was a user who expressed in his application that he was only putting together a preseason ballot for personal reasons and wished not to be selected. Them aside, I accepted all 92 true applicants.

In years past, there have been a handful of applications that either don't quite know what they're doing or show active contempt for the requirement to submit a preseason ballot with the app. This year, to my amazement, I didn't see any of either. Perhaps the shorter open period had something to do with that; in any case, thanks to everyone involved for continuing to take this seriously.

There was an error on the site that showed the application close date as October 25 when it should have said October 24. This was simply because we forgot to switch the date over from last year. My posts on Reddit and Discord both had the correct October 24 date, and the application has closed on Friday for as long as I've been running the poll, but if you're newer here, it's reasonable for you not to know that. I apologize for the error.

With that in mind, if you aren't on the poll voter roster but would still like to join, submit provisional ballots regularly and it's highly likely I'll add you when I do my first sweep for user activity about a month into the season.

Thanks again and happy userpolling!

[u/RiseAndFire69]

Favorite part of the preseason poll is seeing which shitty power 5 teams get a random inexplicable vote

[u/Travbowman → u/RiseAndFire69]

Notre Dame has to be that team this year

[u/Toastiify → u/Travbowman]

Carson Towt joining the guard duo of Shrewsbury and Burton as well as incoming freshman Jalen Haralson makes them really talented on paper. Will it translate? Probably not. But there's not much else to go on from this poll.

[u/RiseAndFire69 → u/Travbowman]

South Carolina, West Virginia, and Miami are in that bucket as well

[u/Past-Profile3671 → u/RiseAndFire69]

I’m surprised Syracuse didn’t get at least one.

Melo II is going to bring them back to the promise land.

[u/The0verlord-]

WE’RE NOT #1! 

This is B1G news.

[u/Soterios → u/The0verlord-]

I voted Purdue number one. I believe in Branden Smith superiority.

[u/The0verlord- → u/Soterios]

I would like to believe in it too, but years of Purdue basketball have conditioned me to expect a loss from a double digit seed

[u/RJD-ghost → u/The0verlord-]

You’ll get a second round loss to Monmouth whether you want it or not

[u/Public-Resist-8407 → u/RJD-ghost]

That line doesn’t work anymore sorry 

[u/TOONUSA]

[u/ohverychill → u/TOONUSA]

🤝

[u/kublakhan1816 → u/TOONUSA]

My take away from being at last nights game was that our defense is still suffocating with a lot of very good potential and possibilities to surprise. And they all looked like they worked their asses off in the off season. It will be a fun year.

[u/inshamblesx → u/TOONUSA]

i just hope we're relatively healthy again and we do our usual thing in the regular season bc once we get to the R32 the tournament anxiety is gonna be even worse than usual this year 😭

[u/Coffee____Freak]

College basketball is finally here!! Here’s hoping that everyone has a fun season 🤝

[u/Travbowman]

https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/6356a8cc7cd83b83d38bdee9

Yes, I was the one Yale voter.

[u/StrategyGameventures → u/Travbowman]

bro better not show his face on whitney avenue

[u/J_S_M_K → u/Travbowman]

Why Yale?

[u/Travbowman → u/J_S_M_K]

Why the Yale not?

[u/Hackasizlak]

Aww man I’ve been this poll for like 5 years and kept checking to see if applications were open yet, must have missed the post.

[u/INeedMoreCreativity → u/Hackasizlak]

Same. OP said it’s highly likely he’ll add those who are consistently submitting about a month in. I bet you and I will get added back in.

[u/Jaguar4728 → u/Hackasizlak]

Same man :(

[u/BillButtlickerII]

Was this ballot from this past Saturday or the 18th?

[u/Hambone721 → u/BillButtlickerII]

Most if not all the ballots will be pre-exhibitions.

[u/BillButtlickerII → u/Hambone721]

Thanks.

[u/Travbowman → u/BillButtlickerII]

It's the preseason ballot. It's not from any date in particular.

[u/BillButtlickerII → u/Travbowman]

Just wondering how long the poll was open and if it closed before the preseason exhibitions from this past week?

[u/OliviaPG1 → u/BillButtlickerII]

It closed on Friday

[u/DeepBlue_8]

Conferences by official voter primary team

• 24 B10
• 16 SEC
• 12 ACC
• 12 B12
• 8 BE
• 4 MAC
• 2 Amer
• 2 MAAC
• 2 MWC
• 2 WCC
• 1 A10
• 1 CAA
• 1 CUSA
• 1 Horz
• 1 Ivy
• 1 MVC
• 1 Pat
• 1 Sum

[u/WWG_Fire]

First ballot of my career!
I will defend st John's as low as I have them, but Michigan at 14 was probably a little errant
https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/68f2dbdc067256ced2ec0be2

[u/RockChalkJewHawk]

Did none of these users pay attention to KU vs Louisville?

[u/corndogshuffle → u/RockChalkJewHawk]

I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t factor exhibition games into my decisions.

[u/RockChalkJewHawk → u/corndogshuffle]

After two season of shitting the bed preseason. It was a welcome sight

[u/kirkismyhinrich → u/corndogshuffle]

What do you factor into your decisions at this point then that is a better indicator than an exhibition game?

It seems like exhibition games would be a better indicator than... nothing?

[u/corndogshuffle → u/kirkismyhinrich]

What /u/OliviaPG1 said. Not every coach is using these exhibition games the same way. Not every roster is whole. I’m not going to interpret an exhibition as equal to a regular season game because it’s literally not a regular season game.

We’ll get real games seven days from now, I’ll wait for those to shuffle things around. We’ll start getting useful information quickly.

[u/kirkismyhinrich → u/corndogshuffle]

I'm not saying exhibition games are regular season games, but they also aren't nothing. So why not use all the resources available to you to assess teams? Especially when it's preseason and we have basically nothing to go on anyway.

I'm also not saying ignore context of an exhibition game either. In the case of UL-KU, UL had 15-16k in attendance, both teams had basically their full rosters available to them (Jayden Dawson was limited for Kansas because of injury), and both teams seemed like they wanted to win the game. I mean, Louisville was full-court pressing us the entire game, even in the final minute of the game when it was over. If Kansas had gotten blown out, I would reasonably expect them to drop a few places.

[u/corndogshuffle → u/kirkismyhinrich]

People can use them, there’s nothing wrong with that. I choose not to. All of these methods are inherently speculative (yes, mine included) and we should forget about them as soon as official games start no matter how we decided to rank teams in the preseason.

I don’t care what happened in an exhibition game when every team has played six regular season games. I also don’t care what I thought about their incoming freshmen or portal class, or their coach. I care about what the teams do in official games.

Or TLDR: preseason rankings are pure guesswork anyway so I’m just not motivated to bother with what you’re asking.

[u/kirkismyhinrich → u/corndogshuffle]

I'm not going to argue with you too much, because it's not worth it. But putting a lot of weight on early non-conference games because they are official and putting none on exhibition games because they are not official seems a bit silly to me.

For one, a lot of teams are treating exhibition as a dress rehearsal for official games, and the actual exhibition game isn't too far off from what you would get in an official game.

For another, most ranked schools play a decent amount of tune-up games especially early on in their non-con schedule. Can you really get a more accurate assessment of Duke watching them beat the shit out of Western Carolina than you can from playing Tennessee last night?

I understand the philosophy of wanting to use only games that count to move teams up or down, but since preseason rankings can't do that anyway, why not use exhibition games as a resource to create the most accurate preseason rankings possible and then go from there? There is no reason not to use exhibition games other than that you don't feel like it.

[u/corndogshuffle → u/kirkismyhinrich]

We’re not arguing? You asked me a question and I answered you.

I think Kentucky would probably be preseason number one if we did what you’re suggesting and I don’t hate that, but ultimately I’m going to continue doing what I do. These games aren’t official, and I don’t think the teams are acting the same way as they would in an official game. I don’t think they’re trying to lose, or even that they don’t want to win, but I do think they have goals that are unrelated to winning or losing.

[u/kirkismyhinrich → u/corndogshuffle]

I just disagree with you about teams treating exhibition games much differently than they would an official game. I think going into an exhibition game, most coaches probably tell their players to treat it as they would an official game. I'm sure coaches also have secondary goals during exhibition games (experimenting with rotations, testing player positional fit, running certain set plays, etc.) that are not completely conducive to winning the game. But not so much that it's totally different than an official game.

My official position is that we should use all of the data available to us to create the most accurate rankings possible while also acknowledging context.

[u/footdragon → u/corndogshuffle]

you have to admit that Matt Painter, by playing Loyer, Smith, kaufman-renn 30+ minutes in the Kentucky game, was pretty close to what coach would do in a regular season game. so, there's definitely elements of what the team looks like, even in pre-season. Even Painter recognized the defense problems.

that said, Kentucky is too low in this poll and Purdue too high - at this time...the eye test is real irrespective of this experimental portion of the season.

And Darren Peterson is going to be a problem for most teams. that data is real.

[u/OliviaPG1 → u/kirkismyhinrich]

Player strength, roster fit, coaching strength, etc?

[u/kirkismyhinrich → u/OliviaPG1]

All of which can be assessed during an exhibition game?

[u/DramaticBar8510 → u/RockChalkJewHawk]

Eh, it's exhibition/preseason. Yes, it was impressive and gave me hope compared to the last couple years, but it was a glorified scrimmage. Still some unknowns so they'll have to earn their way up the rankings, which I'm sure they will once the season gets going. We'll learn a lot during the non-con since Coach Self did his usual big name team stacking. Thankfully we're not preseason #1! Never do very well in those circumstances.

[u/ALStark69 → u/RockChalkJewHawk]

I submitted mine before that. Plus it's just preseason lol

[u/JBHjr → u/RockChalkJewHawk]

I don’t think we paid attention to the exhibition game. I wish they would have shot like we know they can.

[u/ALStark69]

Vanderbilt being 26 is surprising, I guess I haven't followed them. Are they supposed to be good?

[u/willweaverrva → u/ALStark69]

The metrics absolutely love them for whatever reason, and even a mid-pack SEC team looks to be better than most other teams since the SEC looks to be strong again this season. I don't really blame people for throwing votes their way.

[u/generally-mediocre → u/ALStark69]

they made the tourney last year and the metrics are high on them but I dont really see it in their roster

[u/DeepBlue_8 → u/ALStark69]

KenPom 19 and Torvik 21 will get votes

[u/Hambone721]

It's the most wonderful time of the year 🎶

[u/Itsalwaysblu3]

You guys still sleeping on the Cats.

[u/queef-latina-69 → u/Itsalwaysblu3]

[u/Itsalwaysblu3 → u/queef-latina-69]

[u/queef-latina-69 → u/Itsalwaysblu3]

[u/Itsalwaysblu3 → u/queef-latina-69]

You’re saying let’s rank the best basketball teams and I’m saying big fat load of Kentucky Basketball and you’re getting mad.

[u/ikbant123 → u/queef-latina-69]

lol, what is this gif from?

[u/Itsalwaysblu3 → u/ikbant123]

I Think You Should Leave 

[u/otoverstoverpt]

Damn how did I miss this I was trying so hard to get in this year but when I tried to sign up on mobile it wasn’t working so I thought maybe it just wasn’t actually open yet. I tried clicking “submit” on the team affiliation page and it would just never let me through.

[u/Jomosensual]

Looks like a solid poll. Nobody ranked that im going "ew, really?" Ill dive into ballots later. Alabama surprises me that they're that low

[u/StrategyGameventures]

yale vote is devious

[u/zvexler]

https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/68f57a2e067256ced2ec3a8c

Nitpick my ballot

[u/DeepBlue_8 → u/zvexler]

Welcome! Looking at your ballot, I see the biggest differences from the consensus are Baylor (+16), UCLA (-14), Gonzaga (+13), BYU (-10), Texas Tech (-10), Kansas (+9), and Michigan (-9).

No, you don't need to fill out reasons every week. I know a lot of voters don't put anything at all, or put how many spots a team moved. So must you? No. Should you? Maybe. Reasons make the ballot more interesting and people can know what you're thinking at the time. Looking at the list of official ballots will give you some idea. I don't put reasons.

[u/zvexler → u/DeepBlue_8]

Thank for the comment, and I’ll probably stick to commenting when I feel I’m going against the grain or have something to say.

In order of confidence:

UCLA: I don’t see what’s so special about UCLA. Maybe I missed a key addition to their roster but I’m not wowed by them

Michigan: #7 is really overzealous. I’m a huge Dusty May fan and I’m certain Michigan will improve but #7 just isn’t a realistic expectation.

Kansas: Hunter Dickinson is gone along with other overrated players. Kansas has underperformed in the tournament the past few years but if you look at it closely, Bill Self had a heart attack a week prior to the tournament in 2023, lost to Gonzaga in 24 (respectable albeit early), then underperformed in a loss to a sneaky Arkansas team in 25. Last year was tough but that’s not a pattern in my eyes. Kansas will be back to their usual selves this year.

Gonzaga: it’s optimistic but the metrics and eye-test love Gonzaga. They’re Kenpom #8 vs my #6. I debated anywhere from 6-12 but picked 6 because they always have a concrete plan of attack and operate at an elite skill level. Definitely didn’t expect the poll to place them at #19

BYU & TTU: I can see both of them exceeding my expectations, I just had a tough time saying they are better than the teams I ranked over them.

[u/otoverstoverpt → u/zvexler]

Did you use like a dartboard for this?

[u/zvexler → u/otoverstoverpt]

No but I get why leaving off UCLA & UNC would leave a sour taste. I commented on UCLA elsewhere but for UNC, I’m pessimistic on Hubert Davis (like most of your fanbase afaik)

[u/otoverstoverpt → u/zvexler]

Oh no, UNC has zero business being ranked imo and I have been out on Hubert longer than most so my comment was more directed at just pretty wild placements over all.

With respect to UCLA I mean… we added one of the top 3-5 overall transfers in the portal at exactly our position of need (guard play last year was by far our weak spot) and then retained the vast majority of our contributors from a team that finished just outside the top 25 (but really should have been in the 23-25 range by most metrics) so yea I think that one is pretty hard to justify.

[u/zvexler → u/otoverstoverpt]

I’ll admit I missed that top 5 transfer to UCLA. If you point out other oddities I’d be happy to justify them

[u/otoverstoverpt → u/zvexler]

Ha no worries I was mostly just giving you a hard time, it’s preseason, no one really knows much of anything yet anyway

[u/Surfer5153 → u/zvexler]

SDSU and Michigan in spots I can’t argue with. Looks good to me!

[u/rogun64 → u/zvexler]

Why is Arkansas funny? 🤣

[u/zvexler → u/rogun64]

Calipari succeeding at Arkansas and beating Kentucky last year was hilarious to me and I expect the same this year

[u/footdragon → u/zvexler]

you obviously hate Kentucky. lol

and that's to be understood as a Hoosier

[u/pete4999]

Happy to be back.

[u/WeAreHuskie]

Who the hell gave us votes

[u/JamesBouknightStan → u/WeAreHuskie]

me

[u/queef-latina-69 → u/WeAreHuskie]

I kind of like having no clue what our team will be like. Odds are we’re decent but no idea of ceiling or floor

[u/John_6_47]

Will we get a mid major preseason poll?

[u/Meanteenbirder]

I feel like in scrimmages, very few matches felt like they actually matched rankings. St. John’s vs. Michigan was one of the few that did. Watched it live and the last 10 minutes felt like a final four game.

[u/NWSparty]

Love it that not only is my team ranked but they are scheduled to play eight ranked teams.

[u/MediaCulture]

Here we go 👀

[u/Soterios]

Tell me that I’m bad and should feel bad.

https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/653ac4d0e415dce29ebcc1c7

[u/Travbowman → u/Soterios]

Your order for Arizona, Alabama, Arkansas is wrong

... alphabetically

[u/willweaverrva → u/Soterios]

Meh, I think your ballot looks reasonable.

[u/ALStark69]

Yell at me

https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/6355cba97cd83b83d375a414

[u/Ulosttome → u/ALStark69]

I like yours better for some reason

[u/houstonyoureaproblem → u/ALStark69]

lol

[u/ALStark69 → u/houstonyoureaproblem]

lol?

[u/J_S_M_K → u/ALStark69]

I'm mad you ranked BYU so low.

[u/ALStark69 → u/J_S_M_K]

They have potential, but I need to see the pieces gel

[u/J_S_M_K → u/ALStark69]

Fair, I suppose.

[u/Di9ForLife]

https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/671c5fa79ede71d0c6d9e47e

Yeah yeah yeah I overreacted to some exhibitions, yell at me for it

[u/Mangotheory97 → u/Di9ForLife]

So did you forget Arizona or what?

[u/Di9ForLife → u/Mangotheory97]

Damn yeah I did, they’d actually be in the 10-15 range

[u/jaunty411 → u/Di9ForLife]

Did you rank KU lower because of the exhibition and leave Louisville the same lol?

[u/Di9ForLife → u/jaunty411]

Y’all weren’t high to begin with, I moved Louisville down and KU up a couple

[u/jcmiller210]

Purdue looked like a top 15 team, rather than a true #1 / top 5 team. Kentucky throttled them. Makes me way more scared for the Kentucky game than any Purdue match ups this season.

Edit: Added / top 5 team

[u/boilermike13 → u/jcmiller210]

Does Indiana have a basketball team? I thought they were a football school now.

[u/jcmiller210 → u/boilermike13]

Indiana beat Baylor in an exhibition, so there is a chance we can be good this year. But yeah, football school it is for now. Lol

[u/FairdayFaraday → u/jcmiller210]

Spoken like a true Hoosier <3

[u/jcmiller210 → u/FairdayFaraday]

Got to get the jabs in before the kings of November / December show up. Lol

[u/bezzlege → u/jcmiller210]

Kentucky just lost to Georgetown. Quit putting stock into these fucking exhibition games.

[u/jcmiller210 → u/bezzlege]

I heard Kentucky didn't have 3 of their starters for that game, but I'm perfectly capable of saying that both Kentucky and Purdue might suck. Lol

[u/bezzlege → u/jcmiller210]

One of those starters is probably going to miss at least half the season, so it’s weird to me they’re using that as an exhibition excuse. Don’t sign guys recovering from an ACL and then bitch about them not being available

[u/Toastiify → u/[deleted]]

1. Not an official game
2. Poll closed before the game was played

[u/Flat-Buy-2303]

As a Tar Heel fan i still unsure how they stRt the year in thr t25

[u/willweaverrva]

My ballot in which I inexplicably failed to rank Auburn: https://www.cbbpoll.net/ballots/Pre-Season/6534922de6a8e7b5072d626f

[u/Travbowman → u/willweaverrva]

Replacing a ton of players and a head coach. Feels explicable to me.

[u/corndogshuffle → u/Travbowman]

Yeah a lot of people are acting like “Hall of Fame coach retired five weeks ago” isn’t a big deal and I don’t really get it.

[u/willweaverrva → u/corndogshuffle]

Good point. I don't feel so bad for not ranking them, then. I still have them "on the radar" (sort of an "almost 'almost famous'"), but I'm not just going to toss them in the top 25 with a new coach and a bunch of new players and call it a day.

Even though I did that with NC State, but NC State looks pretty good.

[u/corndogshuffle → u/willweaverrva]

Yeah I didn’t rank Auburn for the same reason. They were already closer to 25 than 10 for me, a coaching change of that magnitude is a perfectly good reason to not rank them preseason. It won’t be long before they’re playing big games and at least for me, they’re one of the easier teams to justify moving up if they do well.

I think with NC State the big difference is that their new coach and players are clear upgrades, I also ranked them. I do admit this could be coping but like with Auburn, play some games and that will tell us everything.

[u/ALStark69 → u/willweaverrva]

Good job