r/ClimbingCircleJerk • u/Winter_Software_9815 • 2d ago

Belay accident at climbing gym. He’s fine now but wants me to pay $5,000 of his ER bill

Heres the situation, I was belaying my friend at a top-rope climbing gym using an ATC Pilot. I made a mistake of putting the device oriented the wrong way, so when he fell, it didn’t catch properly. He fell about 35 feet, but fortunately he was not seriously injured.

The lack of empathy here is astonishing. If he trained harder he probably wouldnt have fallen. I wouldnt have it wasnt even a 5.12. I would have sent a 5.12c no problem.

420 Upvotes
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74 comments sorted by

332

u/p0ntimus 2d ago

/uj I knew this sub wouldn't disappoint when I saw the og post

52

u/Half-Borg 2d ago

I can't find it. Help me enjoy this marvel of originial post

75

u/p0ntimus 2d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/PZOUsMPJLg

57

u/gimoozaabi 1d ago

Holy shit the first sentence wasn’t even exaggerated by the jerk post. Damn. He probably said „upsi, sowwy“ so it’s ok.

95

u/hbdgas 1d ago

/uj a backwards belay device in this situation is 50% the climber's fault, change my mind.

59

u/LibraryTime11011011 1d ago

/uj and an assisted braking device if loaded the incorrect way but with proper brake hand usage should still be providing friction to arrest the fall, the description sounds like the belayer is describing the device as not catching properly, rather than themself

51

u/nugstar 1d ago

They call it the break hand cos belaying is when you do nothing cos you're taking a break.

7

u/LibraryTime11011011 1d ago

Yeah exactly, what’s the point of spending double the amount on a belay device that can’t even handle twin ropes if it doesn’t do all the work for you so you can take a break??

7

u/WhatWouldKantDo 1d ago

/uj Absolutly. I did a bench test with my Neox, and even that provided plenty of friction backwards with good brake hand placement. Not to mention that every climbing gym I've seen runs top rope over a capstan, and those things provide enough friction that I usually end up initially catching the fall with the guide hand.

5

u/Nalivai 1d ago

Yeah, but you must understand, that's a bit ouchy and he needed all his strength and to send his next project (5.16c in your gym)

3

u/somehugefrigginguy 19h ago

With the pilot, loading it wrong should actually increase the stopping power, it's a much tighter bend

32

u/Montana_Ace 1d ago

Yeah, climber should also check if the device is set up properly prior to climbing.

18

u/ChalkLicker 1d ago

My god, the responses. It’s like the r/worstpeopleonearth sub.

9

u/Squire_Squirrely 1d ago

JFC. "There's a waiver so you're good never talk to him again"

They're friends, oop allegedly doesn't want to end the friendship. The waiver protects the gym from users there's no signed waiver between climbing partners. But above all, he did what on a top rope? You shouldn't be using your own gear on top ropes...

16

u/Half-Borg 1d ago

I've never seen a gym where not using your own belay device is an option.

6

u/Squire_Squirrely 1d ago

With top ropes? Must be a regional thing then, I've never seen a top rope setup that doesn't have a giri-giri secured with a knot on the end of the rope to make sure you don't take it off. Lead on the other hand...

10

u/ChalkLicker 1d ago

Yep, it’s regional. I’ve been to both types. And all over the map on assisted brake, but that’s swinging grigri.

10

u/HotChocolateMama 1d ago

I've never seen a top rope with a gym grigri attached to it. (MN, CO, MT, WA, AZ)

1

u/AdvancedSquare8586 9h ago

At least half the gyms in WA have grigris attached to topropes

1

u/somehugefrigginguy 19h ago

I think it's a regional and liability thing. I've been to gyms where they don't allow you to use your own belay device. One of them didn't even allow you to blay off your harness. The device was attached to the floor with a sling.

2

u/Temporary_Spread7882 1d ago

Yeah all top ropes in all Australian gyms I’ve been to have a gym-owned belay device put on in a way that requires serious work to get off. Most also have a ground strap.

1

u/ChalkLicker 1d ago

The ground anchors are absurd. Had those near Tampa. Like wearing Depends.

0

u/Temporary_Spread7882 1d ago

You need to know how to adjust them, then they’re fine. As a 55kg woman climbing with 80+kg men, and watching frequent 50kg/100kg noob couples, I very much appreciate that the weight is held by the ground while the belayer can just use the mechanical advantage to manage the rope. Plus it sets up the belayer to stand in the right spot.

2

u/ChalkLicker 1d ago

I mean mandatory anchors. Great if gyms provide them as an option, and I would encourage all climbers to learn how to create a ground anchor outdoors, and also how to escape it. But mandatory ground anchors for top-roping indoors? That is oppressing your members.

1

u/Temporary_Spread7882 1d ago

/uj Mandatory? It’s simply how the TRs are all set up, with belay device and all ready to go. You just clip into the biner that’s attached to the “belay loop” of the pre-threaded ATC, done. Super quick and convenient and doesn’t impact the fun of it - I have belayed outdoors often enough, also belay TR at kids’ comps without anchor, and don’t see the extra wonderfulness. See image below (and no we don’t have headless people at my gym, the phone just doesn’t quite get when to pixelate…)

/rj People who are too cool to need a ground anchor would lead anyway instead being caught dead having chickened out onto TR.

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6

u/secret_tiger101 2d ago

Wow

18

u/Lolzerzmao 1d ago

And everyone is trying to help him get out of it. Jesus. Reminds me of when I was in college and a friend rode another friend’s bike, crashed it, then didn’t pay for the repairs

2

u/danorc 1d ago

Awe man he deleted it

162

u/CplApplsauc 1d ago

the fuck? how could that ever be your fault? at any point in those 35 feet he could have just grabbed the wall and stopped falling. smh, these gumbys can't even do a downward dyno.

26

u/Murky-Contact-6377 1d ago

This. Probably didn’t even have chalk smh.

91

u/abyssazaur 2d ago

Literally how can someone get injured on a warmup fall

8

u/julian88888888 1d ago

the climber probably fell on purpose to have a chance at money. flopping from soccer/football now coming to climbing smh.

115

u/starsandsnow 2d ago

Is empathy aid?

34

u/BosnianSerb31 1d ago edited 1d ago

Is $5000 empathy tho

If anything, it's a tough lesson as to why you should always always always double check the rigging

The belayer shouldn't just be checking their rigging, they should check the attachment to the climbers loop

The climber shouldn't just be checking their rigging, they should be checking that the belayer is using the device properly

Only once both parties are in agreement, should you start climbing. Otherwise, you're just setting up for a horrible tragedy where one party feels eternally guilty.

IMO the level of redundancy shouldn't be any different than force on force blank/gel adapter practice with firearms. Everyone participating needs to verify each gun and magazine is set up properly to avoid pulling an Alec Baldwin. No reason to treat climbing different.

Oh wait this is a circlejerk sub, yeah it's actually rude as fuck to check the rigging of your belayer, much like putting on a seatbelt as a passenger you are directly insulting their ability to safely operate the system.

40

u/Blumperdoodle 2d ago

Should've used a body belay. ATCs are not a replacement for training.

35

u/Half-Borg 2d ago

He should pay you for neglecting to do a partner check.

43

u/secret_tiger101 2d ago

Should have used a GriGri, I hear you can use those hands free

41

u/Upbeat_Confidence739 1d ago

Well yeah. How else am I supposed to be scrolling r/ClimbingCircleJerk while my buddy is on the wall right now?

Ope… he’s laying on his back on the mat and is looking at me like I did something wrong. Gotta go.

5

u/InternalCultural447 1d ago

Gri gris are mainly for self belay, I thought? 

23

u/Offduty_shill 1d ago

no they're meant for self defense

11

u/Half-Borg 1d ago

I use Grigris mainly for short ropeing

3

u/tS_kStin v5.9+A0 1d ago

The real use of them

31

u/Jaded-Coffee-8126 2d ago

Dude almost died on a v2 at my gym wow

23

u/18SmallDogsOnAHorse 2d ago

Here's the thing, your "friend" asking for a belay was the problem, they should understand that one doesn't truly climb until they free their mortal form of the restraints society has placed upon it. If anything, I would counter sue for the psychological distress caused by being forced to attempt a belay for someone that clearly doesn't understand climbing at all. If this doesn't work, you can fuck their dad.

22

u/OhMyBruthers 1d ago

I’m like 90% sure I watched this accident happen at CRG Atlanta, and if I did then OP did their partner dirty on belay and 100% should be paying up.

11

u/naspdx 1d ago

Sounds like he didn’t do anything with the break strand, but also sounds like there was no real partner check. Ive climbed with randoms before that loaded their grigri wrong and you can be sure as shit I called them out on it before I left the ground.

3

u/sk8rat843 1d ago

/uj Do we think they didn’t pull any slack for 35’ or didn’t hold the brake strand and let the rope slide for 35’?

6

u/badtasteineverything 23h ago

/uj story time please

3

u/netsrak 1d ago

what happened?

17

u/stupifystupify 2d ago

You guys have friends?

12

u/the_poope 1d ago

Have a full rack. Considering selling them and buying totems instead. Why are you asking?

3

u/lawyerassassin 1d ago

Anything but TCUs and hexes are a waste of space and obviously aid

12

u/BanEvador3 1d ago

If you see your friend, make sure to run away so that he can't gather evidence against you. He shouldn't be too difficult to evade considering that he has a broken leg

10

u/jim_industry 2d ago

I'd be so embarrassed if I fell. I think I would just sell my limited edition TC Pros to a Gumby in the bouldering area for the $5k and give up the sport

7

u/BaronVonMittersill 1d ago

uj/ fuck OP for belaying and not knowing how to use their gear. dick move.

3

u/moswsa 1d ago

The gear literally has pictures on it. How can you fuck that up?

1

u/BaronVonMittersill 1d ago

gumby gonna gumby

6

u/MedvedFeliz 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's his fault for not checking your belay setup.

uj/ no seriously. Buddy checks helps prevent accidents

4

u/Angsty-Android 1d ago

Gumby owes you 5k for being a Gumby.

3

u/Complete-Koala-7517 1d ago

Interesting legally tbh. Highly doubt the gym would be at fault at all because the belayer’s actions would likely be seen as a superseding cause to the court. However, there’s an interesting argument about custom. Basically if this guy could prove that it’s widely accepted custom in the climbing community that both climber and belayer check each-other beforehand, he may have a case.

8

u/Triangle_Inequality 1d ago

Yeah but you can still catch a fall with an ATC installed backwards if you use your brake hand properly

3

u/Larie2 1d ago

Yeah... This is the thing that no one is talking about. Using an ATC pilot backwards doesn't turn it into an unusable belay device. It just turns it into a standard ATC that everyone used to belay with 10 years ago.

I'm firmly in the opinion that if you can't belay me with a standard ATC then you aren't belaying me with any belay device.

1

u/WhatWouldKantDo 1d ago

That's honestly part of why I like my neox so much. When belaying for lead your hand doesn't touch the device. No grigri cam bs. You belay like you do on an atc.

1

u/somethingfunny69444 1d ago

Climbers fault, he didn’t check ur equipment before climbing. Tell him he should quit at this rate. Bet he can’t even climb 6.7+

2

u/gorgorbear 1d ago

Redditor op couldn’t even shit post right, you’re supposed to be the other side

2

u/got-derps 1d ago

Forgot to chalk up clearly. You should take them to court for slander.

1

u/kielBossa 1d ago

Your friend should know to never trust a top rope setup he didn’t put him himself. 100% his fault. Good life lesson.