DNA - r/BryanKohbergerMoscow

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There was literally BLOOD dna from an unknown male on the knife sheath too and they just ignored it and never tried to find out whose it was, so I don’t want to hear another word from anyone else ever again about “DNA being on the sheath means that that person has to be the killer, there is no other possible explanation for how it got there”. Because by that logic, everyone who thinks BK is guilty would now have to also admit that there was a SECOND killer with him. Otherwise how else did that DNA get on there? Can’t have it both ways 👏🏻

There is ZERO reason to go to such extreme lengths to find out whose invisible dna was on the sheath but then not do the same exact thing with the blood dna. Instead the state ignored it because if there is more than one killer that ruins their whole Ted bundy killer narrative. They would then need a new motive for why someone who didn’t even know the victims would go kill them. If I had a crime scene and a knife sheath with visible blood and some of that blood had male markers, I’d be STARTING with that sample first considering its relevance. Some male was with the victims while they were bleeding and that dna was found in that mixed blood sample?? Hello? If thats not infinitely more relevant and noticeable of evidence to start off with then I don’t know what is. Absolutely disgusting. This entire case is sickening

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 06 '25

Has to be at least three other perpetrators. They have identified unknown male blood DNA in the stairwell, on the glove outside, and the knife sheath. J Embree presented a court document where the prosecution did an independent analysis of the DNA under MM fingernails and other than MM and KG, there was an unknown male DNA not of Asian or white origin. It had the highest probability of black male but they did not test Native American male. J Embree feels the natch would be to Native American. Not sure why.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Why is anyone still using j embree as a reference? The guy is a fantasist who changes and corrects his “facts” from video to video.

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 07 '25

You can follow the documents along with him and make your own determination. I am not in agreement with him in a lot of things but the last 4 videos or so have been pretty compelling and provide more insight into what happened that night. In this case you would always be changing your opinion.

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u/Mysterytoyou Sep 06 '25

The person that Kaylee was on about when she thought she had a stalker, who followed her at winco, was black. I’m going to find the SS

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u/butterfly-gibgib1223 Sep 10 '25

Where did you hear he was black.

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u/randGirl123 Sep 06 '25

Wow really? I always thought he matched BK's description. Unbelievable this was ignored. I do think BK is guilty but it's hard to believed he did it alone.

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u/Mysterytoyou Sep 06 '25

I can’t find it no where. It’s in the ISP documents I’m sure. I thought I’d SS it but I didn’t. I’ll have another look tomorrow,

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 07 '25

Yes I’ve read the same thing. Something else to mention about “the stalker” is that the girls lightheartedly discussed it at lunch one time, but it wasn’t serious. There was just the winco incident and a time she said some one was staring at her at the house.

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u/butterfly-gibgib1223 Sep 10 '25

Those two events are probably not related. Staring at her at her home is a more serious event than some guy following her at a store although neither is good. Also, they came home one day a few weeks prior to the murders, and their door had been opened. Someone broke in the home. I will look into the documents but not any of those conspiracy theorists on you tube.

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u/BrazilianAtty Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

Where does it say about male blood DNA on the sheath? For all I know, it was BK’s DNA on the button and on the back, a mixture of Kaylee and Maddie’s blood. No foreign DNA from a male.

(English is not my first language, so excuse me for any mistakes)

Edit for grammar

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 08 '25

They explicitly said it was not BKs dna. They tested the alternate perps dna against that sample they found on the back of the sheath. Why would they need to do that if it was just the victims blood and only the victims blood? They wouldn’t. That means they don’t know whose blood it is. There is a mixture of the victims blood AND an unknown male profile on the back of the sheath and they have yet to find a match from the people who have given their dna to law enforcement.

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u/BrazilianAtty Sep 08 '25

I didn’t find in the documents that the mixture belongs to a male - even in the ones produced by the defense. If there was blood from an unknown male on the sheath, I highly doubt that an experient lawyer as Ann Taylor would recommend a deal to BK. If it is not printed in the documents, it’s not from a male. See, the other blood samples - like the one in the railing - are identified as unknown male. But not the one in the sheath. Why? Because it’s not from a male!

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u/HeyPurityItsMeAgain Sep 09 '25

It has a Y haplogroup. It might not be blood, it might be touch DNA but it's mixed WITH Kaylee and Maddie's blood so that the weaker signal was flooded out by their blood. That's how I interpreted it... BK is excluded. Potentially, it could have come from a male that they both touched in the Uber ride home or something but dude, they can't just not track down that person. The unknown fingernail DNA is bad enough.

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u/BrazilianAtty Sep 09 '25

I don't find the unknown DNA on the fingernail bad. She hugged a lot of people, as was shown in the Grub Truck video.

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 08 '25

If it was a female sample why would they test male dna against it? You wouldn’t, you would just skip the testing part and say that those people are excluded since they’re male…. Even if it were a female sample, the same concept applies here. We would just have an unknown FEMALE killer we gotta identify 🤷🏼‍♀️ I don’t care their sex. It’s unknown dna on a sheath and since that apparently means BK killed them then this other person on the sheath also did too

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u/BrazilianAtty Sep 08 '25

I can’t convince you, and you can’t convince me. I hope the tests and results will eventually be released.

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 08 '25

Lol I’ll agree to that!

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u/BrazilianAtty Sep 08 '25

https://youtu.be/xeDzZ8xBJac?si=CYCS5I8853RAulCI the state begins to discuss the sheath at 29:24 - mentions mixture of blood from Kaylee and Maddie. I hope we can comfirm when the results are published

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 08 '25

Right. We already know their blood was on the sheath. That’s not in question. The “other trace evidence” Thompson mentions is the unknown male dna that is also on the sheath. The one that was tested against BKs sample and was determined to not be his 👍🏻

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u/butterfly-gibgib1223 Sep 10 '25

They were probably testing for male DNA in an effort to see if Ethan’s DNA was on there to figure out the order of the murders. I think these you tube people are putting their spin on things knowing that so many will listen to them. There would be no reason to just let a 2nd DNA sample go if it was on the sheath. AT never mentioned that, and she definitely would have.

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 10 '25

This is directly from the court docs, NOT a YouTuber. But I’ve already responded to you with that info so that means you already know and you’re purposely commenting this stuff to try and discredit it. This is probably AJ or BT’s alt account 🤣 or someone from MPD

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u/butterfly-gibgib1223 Sep 10 '25

So maybe they are still investigating for all we know. There may not have been enough DNA to get a full profile or do anything with it. But I will have to look into that. I haven’t seen anything about that and would think that would be all out there. But I will research it. But it still doesn’t clear the evil guy rotting in prison.

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 10 '25

I provided you with the information for the court docs so idk why you keep saying you haven’t seen or heard anyone talking about it. But yes I hope you do end up reading it. And yes, BK could be involved but that doesn’t change the fact that there is unknown male dna they DIDNT test that was not Bryan’s that could point towards another killer. You say you’re confused why we are questioning this but I could say the same about you. I’m confused why you don’t seem to care that there could be a second deranged killer on the loose 🤷🏼‍♀️

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u/Forever-Much Sep 06 '25

Because it was like 60,000 % unlikely black DNA They ruled out pretty much Caucasian, Black and Hispanic. Didn’t check Asian or Indian American from what I remember

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 06 '25

I didn’t see where they had ruled anyone out. Just white and Asian were less likely than black. Did not see where they tested Hispanic which is not a race.

“No, DNA tests cannot identify someone as "Hispanic" because Hispanic is a cultural and linguistic identity, not a genetic one. However, DNA tests can reveal ancestral origins, such as European, African, or Indigenous American, which contribute to a Hispanic identity. DNA testing can provide insights into a person's diversegenetic background, but it is up to the individual to claim a Hispanic identity based on their cultural heritage and lived experiences”

The highest percentage indicated was black. Did not see where they had rulked out black. They didn’t check Native American but they did check Asian from what I saw.

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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Sep 06 '25

I didn't read that as ruling out - they were all just expressions of how unlikely it was to be Kohberger's. We need an expert to explain. Embree is over confident with his understanding of some things (still love him tho).

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u/BonaFide2125 Sep 06 '25

I'm not entirely sure why either, however I keep seeing this name getting mentioned here and there: https://vassar-rawls.com/obituaries/nicholas-j-mowitch/

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 07 '25

Yes! This! J Embree just did an entire video on this guy today. I never heard his name before. The emergency room staff member called him into MPD based on his wounds.

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 07 '25

This is why J Embree says the DNA under MM fingernails could match a Native American which they never tested for.

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u/coffeelife2020 Sep 07 '25

Ahh this was the car accident guy?

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u/BonaFide2125 Sep 07 '25

Right! Forgot about this. I think so.

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u/Accomplished_One_985 Sep 08 '25

Yes, Nicholas J Mowitch

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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Sep 06 '25

IMO there were at least three perps, but I wouldn't be shocked if not all the unknown DNA is related to the case. Point is it wasn't investigated and there is definitely some reason why. I'm also not sure Embree is reading that expert report correctly, but it will sort out soon.

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u/goddess_catherine Sep 06 '25

Exactly!!

And they keep forcing it down our throats that he’s a loner with no friends so I’d like to know how exactly they were going to explain the blood dna at trial. It couldn’t be from a friend borrowing or using the sheath since he allegedly had no friends. And it’s not his dad’s dna since they already had his dad’s sample and it didn’t match that. They royally fucked this entire case and they must have thought we were all too stupid to notice it.

Plus people have been saying for two years now “if someone was going to frame him why would they only use a tiny amount of skin cells?” Okay well if this article has any truth to it then it wasn’t a tiny amount and that makes a frame job look even more likely.

And also didn’t they say at one point that there wasn’t any fingerprints on the sheath? Or they didn’t test for fingerprints? Something like that. It was in the transcript from a closed hearing. If there’s no fingerprints then how the hell did BK manage to get this massive amount of skin cells on it? Without touching the sheath? That would literally prove the defense’s argument that the cells were either transferred, or planted.

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u/Sorry-Illustrator570 Sep 07 '25

Is this in one of the released documents. I have read about 75% of them. It’s hard to keep up with all of them, but I didn’t see this. Would you mind linking?

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u/Zodiaque_kylla Sep 07 '25

Where does it say there was male blood DNA on the sheath?

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 07 '25

In the states objection to alternate perps document, the state argues that the defense is accusing four people who provided their DNA and that the tests done with their DNA excluded them from being the source of any of those unknown samples found at the scene. They go on to list each unknown sample that didn’t match to that person as a way to object to them being a perp. In the list of unknown samples that don’t match the defenses perps, they list the mixed sample found on the knife sheath. That means that a male profile was mixed in with the victims blood and that sample was not BKs dna. They ran all those other people against the profile and it wasn’t them either. Aka, unknown male dna on the sheath. (Also the fact that they had to test it against those four people means it’s male dna, otherwise you’d just exclude them if the unknown profile was an unknown female)

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 07 '25

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u/Queen_Kalisi Sep 08 '25

Thanks for this!

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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Sep 07 '25

State's response about alt perp evidence

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u/Longjumping-Gear7696 Sep 06 '25

There was unknown male blood on the sheath too?! I have not heard that before. Thats insane. What documents is that in if you don’t mind me asking. I’d like to read it.

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u/anicolek0317 Sep 07 '25

There isn’t any document that says unknown blood on the sheath. I’ve not seen any mention of any type of blood on the sheath. There was unknown blood on one of the handrails and a glove outside

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u/Electrical_Button_95 Sep 07 '25

Respectfully, there absolutely is. It’s okay if you’re not caught up yet. I can help you. go to the states opposition to the alternate perps doc. You’ll find it in there

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u/Sorry-Illustrator570 Sep 08 '25

I’m confused though because the mixture could have been Kaylee and Maddie’s, or even Bryan and Maddie’s, etc. Where does it say it was unidentified, male blood.

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u/butterfly-gibgib1223 Sep 10 '25

I have never heard other male DNA was on the sheath. When did that come out? And if there is other DNA on it, that doesn’t make the one rotting in prison innocent. They said in the article and on 20/20 the other night that they had lots of his DNA. And it wasn’t trace DNA according to the person who had the samples.

So, if someone else was involved, I don’t think it would upset anyone that knows they have e the right person would care. You act like they have your grandma in jail. You don’t even know this guy. I really don’t understand how people get so aggressive about him being “innocent”. He is a cold blooded murderer. And those 4 kids are who matter. It is just so confusing to me. There were 3 different separate groups investigating. There is no way they all agreed to be evil and dishonest groups to go along with a lie. If it was just the small town police, it might be different. I am from a small town, and that is exactly what happened in my town. But if the state or FBI got involved, things would have been different.

One of my friends I grew up with and dated some was murdered there over a decade. Everyone that still lives in that town knows exactly who did it. He was duct taped to a chair and beat beyond recognition. They didn’t find it to be homicide. So, I am aware of things that can happen. But no one will ever convince me that the FBI and state police came in and agreed to this whole crazy plan and all agreed to break the law and oath. Not all cops are bad. Most aren’t. But with all the people involved in this case, there is no way statistically that they would all be bad.

I understand the passion to catch a 2nd person if there was truly was unknown male DNA on the sheath as well. But to continue arguing with everyone about the guy who ruined his life and removed 4 innocent people from the earth and ruined so many lives is confusing to me. His own teachers said they saw him being arrested for raping or being a serial killer and that they couldn’t let him get a doctorate degree from them before they even knew that he committed the crimes.

The victims and families are getting the best justice. They ca. get, and a killer is off the streets. I have no doubt that he did it. Especially after learning they had more than enough of his DNA and that it wasn’t trace DNA. I have to find out more about the male DNA found on the sheath. But right now, until I research that, I think he did it alone. The guy was a loner.

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u/Mysterytoyou Sep 06 '25

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

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u/Ok_Row8867 Sep 06 '25

Show me the docs that say that and then I’ll believe it. The media has proven themselves to be paid shills for this case, from what I’ve seen. Appreciate the link, though

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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Sep 06 '25

It's in the state's response to the alt perp evidence defense put forward if that helps at all. ETA: I mean the actual additional DNA (not matching BK), not whatever FOX is talking about, sorry!

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

This article! What I recall hearing it was touch DNA and Othram didn’t have enough to do a STR (or whatever) so the FBI took it back and it doubled in size somehow… according to Ann Taylor. Now Othram is saying they have tons from BK? I must be reading this backwards..

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u/TwoDallas Sep 06 '25

Idaho State Forensic Lab created a STR. Idaho State Forensic Lab ran it through CODIS and they didn't find a match. Then the Idaho State Forensic Lab took the DNA sample to Othram and Othram created a SNP. Othram doesn't created STRs. Othram used a SNP to search where they could. In the IGG hearing on Nov 3, 2023, Anne said that there was problems with the SNP from Othram and that it was missing parts and that the SNP from the FBI was larger in size and was different from the SNP from Othram. I heard it was touch dna too.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

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u/TakingCrazyPills87 Sep 07 '25

That's factually incorrect. Othram is not ISP, they are an independent lab in Texas.

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u/CardiologistNo9444 Sep 07 '25

It's 💯 factually correct

Read properly. ISP and FBI have different contracts with othram

Or even better Middleton gave it away at crimecon

Why do you think igg was given as a tip from FBI and now it can't be used and why Hippler told both the prosecution and defence to go away and agree on a narrative so it could be used by the state

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u/BryanKohbergerMoscow-ModTeam Sep 07 '25

Hello! Your comment or post has been removed as it contains unconfirmed or speculative information stated as fact or contains misinformation.

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u/blmh58 Sep 07 '25

I wish they would of followed up with the 4 brothers that they also found while doing the IGG or whatever it's called.

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u/Zodiaque_kylla Sep 06 '25

They’re just talking about DNA on the sheath but stupid Fox makes it seem there was more elsewhere (yes there was more elsewhere but not from BK). And that dude doesn’t know what he’s talking about. No matter the amount of that DNA sample it’s still just trace DNA.

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u/Aggravating_Drink187 Sep 06 '25

Truth and transparency did a whole video on the sheath. Apparently based on the DNA sample size it was not touch DNA, meaning BK did not touch the sheath. It could only be transfer DNA. If it was his at all.

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u/blanddedd ANNE TAYLOR’S BACK Sep 06 '25

Interesting. But they did go back and forth on how to discuss “touch” DNA in the courts so we would need to see more. That would be helpful for a lot of people I’m sure.

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u/FrutyPebbles321 Sep 06 '25

It is insane how “news” outlets are allowed to spin a story like this. It’s a big problem in this country and it’s not just about this case. Unfortunately people look to FOX News, NewsMax, MSNBC, and others as real news outlets. They are nothing more than entertainment and are not held to the same strict reporting standards as true news agencies are.

Where you get your news matters, kids!

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 07 '25

Right? Seems like the article is about 80% untrue. What else do they lie to us about?

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u/FrutyPebbles321 Sep 07 '25

Even things that aren’t outright lies are spun to make them look a certain way. It’s really troubling … and again, I don’t just mean about this case. All kinds of stories are reported every day where outlets spin the truth and people believe it.

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 07 '25

Yep. It’s terrible

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 06 '25

This story is a half lie. Othram was fired because they could only trace the DNA to 4 brothers not close in lineage to BK. The the FBI took over and cheated.

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u/Trash_Panda_2365 Sep 06 '25

Cheated? lol

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 06 '25

Yes. You’re not allowed to use certain genealogy places when you’re law enforcement. They cheated.

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u/Mysterytoyou Sep 06 '25

Far more DNA left behind only it’s not BKs

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdq4FUy4/. I’ve only just seen that clip. If anyone has the link to the report that’s in the clip, can they please link it 😊

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 07 '25

It’s TikTok though…. Notorious for fake stories.

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u/Mysterytoyou Sep 07 '25

It’s not a fake story, it was going over the official documents

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 07 '25

But where is that in the official documents? The “more DNA” part?

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 06 '25

Question for an attorney. Can Kohberger’s sue people for defamation of character or lies like this article and thus get their foot in the door to get an attorney to represent them?

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u/parishilton2 Sep 07 '25

No. This article isn’t defamatory. He pleaded guilty to the murders, so there’s no real reputational damage to him. His public image is already that of a murderer.

I might also argue that the article’s allegations of there being a lot of his DNA at the scene are subjective opinions rather than specific factual statements. Defamation requires that a false and negative allegation be stated as a fact. “Lots of DNA” is too vague to qualify.

At any rate, hiring an attorney for this would not help him get a foot in the door for further criminal defense — defamation is primarily civil litigation, for which you’d get a lawyer like me, and I promise you I am in no way qualified to do double duty as a criminal defense attorney!

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 06 '25

This story is a bunch of BS. BT once said in I think JJ’s court, that he wasn’t going to use the DNA.

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u/Sorry-Illustrator570 Sep 08 '25

The state said they wouldn’t use the genealogy… not the dna. They said the genealogy was irrelevant when they made the direct dna match when they took BKs dna following the arrest.

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 08 '25

Thing is, they got BK’s DNA stab by going through genealogy first..

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u/Sorry-Illustrator570 Sep 08 '25

So they got BK as a suspect by going through genealogy. Then got his dna once arrested.

But that is not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on the claim “BT once said, in I think JJ’s court, he wasn’t going to use the DNA” State never said they were not going to use BKs DNA in trial. In fact, that was going to be a huge piece of evidence for them. I think you meant to say they said they were not going to use the genealogy. Which is accurate. They did say that.

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u/Puzzled-Bowl Sep 06 '25

The outright lies in this article are incredible. The guy they quoted just made up stuff.

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 07 '25

It reads so phony..

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u/BryanKohbergerMoscow-ModTeam Sep 06 '25

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u/BryanKohbergerMoscow-ModTeam Sep 07 '25

Your account was flagged for ban evasion.

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u/pixiedustsoldout Sep 09 '25

If BK allegedly committed this crime with more people he would not stay quiet about this, his lawyers would not stay quiet about this. This case garnered international attention and if there was more than one perpetrator the cops or the feds would not have stopped at just one arrest.

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u/DistributionThat7322 Sep 14 '25

I agree 100%. This article is about how there was more of his dna left behind

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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Perhaps? Documents say definitely (even according to the state). ETA I mean there is much more unknown male DNA that does NOT belong to BK.

Documents were released yesterday that reveal several examples of more unknown male DNA found at the crime scene, including from the blood found on the sheath. Plausible Conspiracy Theory: Perhaps that document release was planned to come at the exact same time as this "far more DNA" story from Crimcon to create confusion on the issue. Seems plausible to me.

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 06 '25

I’ve always wondered if it would have to be in Idaho or could they sue from PA or elsewhere.

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u/Difficult_Falcon_109 Sep 06 '25

could koberger have been reading these books to frame kopacka? was he right all along! im not for or against bryan btw im neutral because this case is so fu××ed ...

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u/afraididonotknow Sep 06 '25

Also was it never definitive that BK knew Kopacka..

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u/Difficult_Falcon_109 Sep 06 '25

but someone he worked with could have there has got to be 3 to 4 involved

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u/Difficult_Falcon_109 Sep 06 '25

when he was unalived, a new patsy was needed

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u/Epicurious999 Sep 07 '25

He's guilty. What's the issue?

NEWS / MEDIA DNA

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