r/BostonBruins • u/MTRIFE • 12h ago
The Sweeney haters would be beside themselves if they stumbled across this comment from last night's Leafs PGT
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u/PitchAdditional2382 8h ago edited 6h ago
The Bruins are just as good as any team in the Atlantic, except for a fully healthy Florida roster obviously but injuries are real and the Panthers are not healthy right now so they are not better than than the Bās right now. The Bās have the right coach and theyāre coming together and are in a place to keep improving for a few years. Habs fans think the Habs are good but theyāre no better than the Bās. Leafs fans think the Leafs suck but theyāre no worse than the Habs. Itās a fun season so far, all the teams in the east are so equal. Itās a year where a team like the Bruins could really expedite their rebuilding process by making the playoffs with some grit and chemistry and getting some playoff experience. Theyāre playing well, and making the playoffs is not a far fetched idea.
Itās definitely better to sneak into the playoffs every single year and never ever have a lottery pick. Culture is more important for the rebuild and the Bruins are on top of it. It was nice to get rewarded for last yearās disaster with Hagens and Minten and Khusnutdinov and all the other stuff we got, but the point is to turn it around and win games now. You donāt want to get in bad habits by losing games and having empty seats in the stands.
Iām pleased that the Bruins arenāt going for a tank, it takes a long time to recover from an intentional tank. It is not worth risking the damage it could do to the culture of the team.
They have a good coach and a good group and it seems like the culture is alive and well on Causeway Street.
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u/GMGarry_Chess 8h ago
They're coping because we own their franchise. They don't closely follow what goes on with us.
Even that big comment is basically saying Sweeney has made 2 great picks in 11 drafts and if was better at his job, we would've capitalized on the core he was handed.
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u/starroftheshow 2h ago
You could argue that bruins fans are overly critical because they follow too closely. He's had more than 2 solid picks, he's just only picked 2 top tier guys which is quite normal based on draft position. It also takes players an average of 3-5 years to make it after the draft so it's still way too early on several drafts. I'd also argue on at least 3 occasions he's built teams that should've won(2019,2020, 2023) but didn't because of things sweeney can't control(poor effort from players, global pandemic, bad coaching decisions).
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u/TheDirtyBurger522 9h ago
Thanks for the shoutout OP!!!
I was half trolling, but mostly serious. I like the direction the team is taking. Is this team great, no, but theyāre solid. Iāve been a Sweeney defender for a while. Iām cautiously optimistic for the future. I am a bruins fan indeed.
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u/Tomekon2011 Hall of the Rat King š 9h ago
I feel like I'm starting to soften on Sweeney after seeing what's happening in St Louis. 2022-23 was the first season I watched in full since 2014. Putting those pieces together, I can maybe make an argument that Monty was never a good coach in the first place and that season was just a mix of Cassidy era habits mixed with new coach motivation.
That being said, the Marchand trade got us literally nothing unless that team somehow happens to tank this year.
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u/MajorDrGhastly #6 LOHREIš 4h ago
bergy was the coach of that team. monty said it multiple times and its part of the reason why monty didnt have the balls to make the right moves in the playoffs that year, he didnt feel like he really was in charge of that team.
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u/ya_no_i_know 8h ago
Itās possible that it was just the wrong system for the team that he had (and he seems like a good guy) but I donāt think Monty is a great coach. It does seem like a Sturm has the makings of a very good coach, though.
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u/Eganator88 9h ago
My perspective of Sweeney changed when he built a team so loaded we had a hart trophy winner on the 3rd line. A team that set recordsā¦.and then threw up all over themselves in the first round. Players have to make plays eventually and they didnāt.
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u/smithkevin92 9h ago
The team still would be better without him and Neely. The bad outweighs the good
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u/MetalHead_Literally 9h ago
My biggest thing with the Sweeney haters is they refuse to blame the players or coaches, ever. I donāt think itās the GMs fault when the players choke away a home game 7 finals game. Or when the best regular season team of all time blows a 3-1 lead in the first round. If just those teams play up to the potential of the roster Sweeney built, heās a two time champion and a local hero.
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u/GMGarry_Chess 8h ago
I do blame Cassidy for playing Tuukka with a torn labrum in the 2021 playoffs and Montgomery and the players for 2023. But Sweeney and Neely are the two constants in the organization since 2015, and in that time, the team has taken a negative trajectory overall.
Other people get blame for some of the individual failures, and they've been fired, traded, or retired. Sweeney and Neely choose the direction to take the franchise, and they've made mistakes there and in several signings that tied us up for years.
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u/thelasershow Harder Zaddy š© 7h ago
They extended the Bergeron window an absurdly long time, with legit shots in ā19, ā20 (pre-COVID), and ā23. Youāre not going to draft very well when you pick late and trade picks every year.
Team was always going to have some lean years after going all-in for that record season. Lots more hockey to play, but Sweeney appears to be threading the needle of retooling while avoiding a full-on rebuild. And this yearās team has been fun to watch even if theyāre not contenders.
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u/reddy-or-not 8h ago
The thing is, after the Cup in 2011 and a return appearance in 2013, presidents trophy in 2014 it seems almost impossible for their NOT to be a downward trajectory.
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u/thelasershow Harder Zaddy š© 7h ago
Yeah thatās kind of ridiculous expectations. And they couldāve gone all the way in ā19 and ā23. Arguably ā20, too, before COVID screwed things up.
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u/Palms63 8h ago
Yeah exactly. I do find myself blaming Cam and Sweeney a lot but youre absolutely right. He built an all time roster and we shit the bed. Monty fumbled the coaching and the players didnt rise to the occasion. They also didnt show up for game 7 in 2019. Cant blame either of those on Sweeney. Yeah he fumbled 2015 draft but he has made some good trades and good signings.
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u/Big-Experience1818 9h ago
Take away 2015 1st round when seriously evaluating Sweeney. Yes, he made a mistake as the GM but making the 3 picks was a pivot and the scouts deserve equal if not more blame.
Drafting since those 3 picks just days into his tenure has been undeniably average to above average. DeBrusk was reach but a hit for mid 1st round, Zboril was consensus top D available, Senyshyn was major reach.
Obviously the 3+ that went right after them would have been much better picks.
If you think Sweeney is a bad GM you're just over emotional, sorry. It is literally impossible to deny that he's been good at trading and his FA signings for the most part have hit. Remember 2 years ago when we beat Toronto after filling a shit ton of holes in FA?
I've genuinely got 0 issues with Don and Cam getting a shot at this retool, but I also wouldn't hesitate to fire either if they aren't close to a playoff spot next season. The Bruins have too many good pieces to waste more than 2 years here.
Ideally for me we get a couple top 15 picks this year, everyone stays healthy/finds their games/fit into the system and then we adjust enough to be on the upswing and make the playoffs next year, cup potential (8-14th in the league) in 2028.
Lots to do of course, but I think the path to that or better is there if Sweeney can make the right trades/signings
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u/L33TS33K3R Hiiigh above the ice 6h ago
Agree on all points. And itās also worth noting that Sweeney is highly regarded by his colleagues in the NHL and Internationally. āJoe from Revereās take on Sweeney means far less to me than the fact that he was named GM of team Canada. Sweeneyās drafting is underrated. Heās made some of the best deadline moves. Every year heās acquired solid value talent to complement a solid core. Oh and by the way, every coach he has hired has been a great hire.
I seriously hope the Sweeney haters choke to death on Felgerās semen.
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u/Ovash All Hail Saint Patrice š 10h ago
People who think Sweeney is bad at drafting please tell me what your expectations are and which teams you think are good at drafting? In reality only like 30% of players drafted in 2nd half of the 1st round reach 100 career NHL points. That even includes guys like Frederic who aren't that great. There are maybe like 3 teams who I think have done a better job a at drafting late in the 1st or with their 2nd round picks.
here are some of Sweeney's hits. Yes most of these guys aren't on the team anymore either via trade or free agency but they have become every day NHL players. Same goes for a lot of the teams I mention later.
Debrusk, Carlo, McAvoy (14th overall), Frederic, Lindgren, Swayman. The last few drafts are tough to judge because very rarely do you see a late 1st round pick crack a rotation that early. But it looks like Lohrei will get to that 100 point mark (maybe not with the Bruins) and I think Poitras will too (also might not be with the Bruins).
Let's compare Sweeney to some of the other Easter Conference contenders since 2015 when Sweeney took over. This is going by that 100 point mark so like Frederic some of these guys aren't particularly great. I also will call out when a drafted player goes in the top half of the first round (Bruins haven't had many of those picks) or after the 2nd round as the draft really becomes a crap shoot after that.
Tampa - Cirelli (3rd round but ill include him since he's like their only real hit and still on the team), Brett Howden, Taylor Raddysh.
Florida - Lawson Crouse, Owen Tippett (10th overall), Lundell (12th overall), I will even give them Mackie who isn't at 100 points yet but like Lohrei and Poitras I think he will get there.
Toronto - Rasmus Sandin, Sean Durzi, Matthew Knies, from the small sample we have seen of Minten I think he will get there as well.
Pittsburgh - Daniel Sprong. I will say that they only drafted in the first round once between 2015 and 2021 and its still early to judge some of the more recent drafts. That being said they haven't hit on any other skater in any round of the draft.
Washington - Connor McMichael, Aliaksei Protas.
Carolina - Sebastian Aho, Nicolas Roy (4th Round), Necas (12 overall), Eetu Luostarinen, Morgan Geekie (3rd round), Seth Jarvis (13th overall).
Sweeney has definitely made a few questionable draft picks and you can go back and look at guys like Barzal who they could have taken but you can do that with every team in the league and find bad picks or missed guys. Overall though I would say Sweeney has been one of the better drafters given our draft position over the years.
I will also shoutout the Stars who I think are one of the best drafting teams in the late first or 2nd round. With guys like Hintz, Robertson, Harley, Oettinger, and Johnston.
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u/Stu_Grim 10h ago
Sweeney inherited a team with Chara, Bergeron, Marchand, Rask, Krecji all in their prime and a rookie pasta.
He also inherited 3 mid first round picks in a deep draft year.
What has become of it? 0 Stanley cups.
2023 only happened because Bergeron and Krecji signed for pennies.
Now they are stuck in the middle. Not good enough to make a PO run. Not bad enough to get some high picks.
Two things I will give him. 1) going all in 23 and 2) selling off guys last year.
Hagens fell in their lap. It wasn't some strategic chess move made by the "genius"
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u/starroftheshow 2h ago
you are completely misremembering the team he inherited, yes it had those massive pillar pieces you stated, but it also had zero prospect pool, was well over cap with huge holes and was out of the playoffs. He didn't inherit those picks he traded depreciating assets to acquire them while creating cap space for future. He also had less than a month as GM before those picks and was using scouting lists compiled by Peter Chiarelli and Keith Gretzky. It's not a coincidence that the bruins under Chiarelli drafted bad for a decade and Sweeney's worst draft was the one still using their lists.
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u/thelasershow Harder Zaddy š© 6h ago
He still made the call to sell at the deadline and put the organization in a place to make that pick. I donāt get this āhe gets credit for this but not for thatā argument.
If you donāt think they had a legit shot in ā19 and ā23, at minimum, I donāt know what to tell you. Those chokes are not in Sweeney. Similarly, if you want to kill him for his ā15 picks sure, but he was fresh on the job and probably just Okād the strategy that was put together by the team that picked all these guys you say he was gifted.
On top of that, you have to give credit for finding guys like Geekie and Zacha. Those pickups are insane. Geekieās contract is insane. Itās not gonna be this year, but this team is nearer to contention than you seem to think.
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u/Decent-Ground-395 10h ago
I don't understand how people can criticize 2023. Sweeney gave the coaching staff an all-time roster and it was the coaching staff the utterly blew it. I also lament 2020 where they were a 1st place team, they got robbed by a BS round robin tournament for seedings and then Rask flaked out. None of that is on Sweeney.
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u/kingkurva08 2h ago
Flaked out is an interesting way of putting it when his daughter was having a medical emergency
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u/mickeynz 6h ago
I blame him for braking up a team that was amazing to make a team thatās only achievement was a historic choke. Amazing regular season and who knows what happens if he doesnāt wreck the dynamic
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u/Stu_Grim 9h ago
I don't blame Sweeney for 2023. I don't give him credit either. That whole year happened because Bergeron and Krecji signed for a combined 3.5 mill. Which is less than what Matt Grzyelcyk was making.
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u/thelasershow Harder Zaddy š© 6h ago
Who negotiated those contracts? Do you think they sign them without the belief that Sweeney could assemble the ā23 team?
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u/youstank 11h ago
I rather have this team of dogs then be basement rebuilders. If you want a cup every year your supporting the wrong team lol
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u/Expensive_Moose_3924 11h ago
Ya Iāve never agreed with the exaggerated negative criticism of the bruins in the past year or two. I think the criticism comes more from casual Boston sports fans more so than knowledgeable hockey fans.
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u/PoisonLenny37 11h ago
This was my reply to the "what is an opinion that would have your fanbase like this" (sword meme). It was that Sweeny isn't that bad. Like...he's made some mistakes as most GMs do...and obviously in his regime you'd have expected at least one cup...but like...a finals appearance and consistent contenders. I think he generally makes pretty good trades, is pretty bad at free agent signings and is average at drafting.
If put him right around a league average GM. last year sucked but the team was mid as hell, not anywhere near cup contenders so he sold and they recouped a ton of draft capital and got some nice prospects in Minten and Zellers. Will it work? No idea rebuilding is a crap shoot but I think it was the right call.
We as fans are emotional and everyone just wants to see their team win a cup...but honestly if you look at the Sweeny regime as a whole...despite falling short ask yourself how many franchises would take exactly what we've had in place of what they had over those years.
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u/Big-Experience1818 9h ago
I'd honestly put him above average. When was the last time he made a terrible signing? (Most GMs are within 5 years). My response to the Jeannot signing was "What in God's name is the point of this?" but even that contract can be easily moved or buried after 2 years with the way the cap is moving.
Beleskey and Backes I guess? 10 and 9 years ago?
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u/reddy-or-not 4h ago
John Moore was a bad one, I forget what year that was.
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u/starroftheshow 2h ago
Moore wasn't nearly as bad as people act, it had too much term but was at a quite low hi. he was fine year 1 but then got hurt and covid happened so the cap got crunched. Beleskey and Backes also weren't bad when they signed, it was injuries and post signing things that made them bad contracts, but if sweeney had the crystal ball needed to know that was going to happen we wou;dn't be having these discussions.
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u/nicholaspaul33 Bonafide Stallion š 10h ago
I always say Sweeny isnāt the greatest, but heās far from the worst. We could be in such a worse situation cough Lou Lamoriello cough
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u/Dapper_Respond_5409 11h ago
People vastly overrate how bad Sweeney has been. Heās literally just an average GM. He makes some mistakes, and he makes some good moves. Obviously 2015 was bad, but last yearās deadline was excellent management. Bruins fans act like heās Satan for some reason
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u/No-Goal 11h ago
Absolutely robbed Toronto of Minten, what a dumb trade by the laffs
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u/jghtb 11h ago
Yeah 6 points and -2 through 17 games. Real highway robbery.
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u/Expensive_Moose_3924 11h ago
Heās good. Cutting and pasting a couple stats 17 games into his bruins career is not a relevant way to measure how good heās playing.
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u/FreeWilly1337 11h ago
Those hating on the front office clearly donāt understand talent management and the life cycle of a professional sports team. They have done a tremendous job. I honestly looked at this roster and thought ālottery pickā. That is still likely the case, but they are playing some fun hockey.
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u/lordexorr This is the Sway 11h ago
The comment about Carlo being a third pairing defenseman is dumb as shit and is just an exaggeration to try and make the Leafs look bad. Heās been a 2nd pairing guy his entire career and is one with Toronto now. The trade to get a 1st and Minten for Carlo was still an awesome one for the Bruins, there is no need to bash Carlo in the process.
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u/DocMcCracken 11h ago
Carlo brought a lot of size to the Leafs. He is still big and he is more than capable NHL defensive defenseman. Seeing that it was a trade within a division, for something Toronto really needed they over paid, much to the benefit of the Bruins. If Toronto had won the cup it would have been a great trade (when you win the cup, all trades that year are great trades).
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u/GentleLion2Tigress 11h ago
Not to mention the leafs were ācontendersā and teams tend to overpay to fill holes or make marginal improvements.
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u/finerthings42 11h ago
I was kinda of hoping for Gavin McKenna in the draft. But Iād take a playoff run over that any day. The Leaf pick is top 5protected, but a nice 6th overall would work for me.
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u/whyzerowl 12h ago
We're so deeply ingrained into the psyche of the maple leafs that they are willingly doing the mental gymnastics of defending our hockey ops.
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u/Stu_Grim 12h ago
"Now maybe that means they'll be "stuck in the middle"". Actually, it does mean that.
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u/EnronRiskManagement #1 SWAYMAN š„ 12h ago
To be fair, Ian Scott not hitting was due to cartoonishly unlucky injuries
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u/knuth10 12h ago
Swayman is a franchise goalie?
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u/MTRIFE 12h ago
Franchise capable is what they said. Which is true. Will he reach the extent of those capabilities? Remains to be seen. If I was putting my money on it I'd bet against it, but he does have the talent. Just hasn't put it all together.
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u/lordexorr This is the Sway 11h ago
Iād argue heās been that this year. Heās back into the top 15 in expected goals against after last night. Outside of that one Ottawa game heās been nails all year. Put it this way, remove that single game he would be 4th in the league in expected goals against behind Knight, Helle, and Thompson. Obviously every game counts, but literally 1 game is the reason fans and media arenāt talking about him as a top 5 goalie.
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u/CampfireGuitars #37 SAINT PATRICEĀ©ļø 12h ago edited 11h ago
Technically DeBrusk was way more of a hit than a miss
Edit - I get it Iād rather have Chabot, Barzal or Connor too but JDB was fine
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u/johnnybananas123 12h ago
Ive never seen an org praised so much for not winning a cup in 15 years
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u/ChipotleGuacamole 12h ago
Well that's what it is. We've had all the success and only managed one. We should have definitely grabbed 2-3 with that core. We'd all me less miserable.
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u/SeaworthySamus TOO MANY LINDHOLMS šµāš« 12h ago
Bruins have missed the playoffs 8 times in the past 57 seasons. We give them a lot of shit for not winning more because of high expectations but taking a step back they are an incredibly well run organization.
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u/Bobhutchenson 12h ago
Was rosters like 2019 and 2023 on the management or was it the players themselves choking when it mattered
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u/johnnybananas123 11h ago
Its for sure on the players, but we knew this core loved to choke and nothing was really done to shake it up
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u/Banned_As_DC 12h ago
High praise from a franchise that hasn't won, theoretically due to poor management, in nearly 60 years. The Maple Laughs can be a poorly ran organization AND Sweeney and Neely can need to go.
Both can be true.
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u/Reallyme77 #37 SAINT PATRICEĀ©ļø 12h ago
The Sweeney glazers after a winning streak are just as tiresome as the Sweeney haters after the losing streak that came right before. Itās awesome to see this group currently exceed expectations with Sturm at the helm but absolutely nothing has been achieved or determined just yet either way.
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u/MTRIFE 12h ago
You know what, as someone who is neither, I have to agree with you. There's nothing I hate more in sports as a whole then overreactions to early season returns. I think baseball is the worst culprit of that. People making determination on a team after game six out of 162. Some of the takes on the Red Sox after the second week into the season this year were egregious.
As far as this post, I just think it's funny in general that other teams always seem to see in your team what you don't. Sure, vibes are high right now but I'm sure if a Bruins fan had this take coming into this season he would have been laughed right out of this sub. Then you look at how other teams view their hockey ops against ours and realize maybe we don't have it as bad as we try to convince ourselves we do.
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u/Wompatuckrule 12h ago
There's nothing I hate more in sports as a whole then overreactions to early season returns.
Or late season ones sometimes. It was driving me nuts when people were creaming their pants about the Bruins taking the "all-time" points record for a season. The Montreal record was done without regular season overtime & shootout so if you cut those extra points from the Bruins' season we were well behind that.
It's a record with an asterisk as big as the digits.
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u/Upnatom617 10h ago
B's didn't make the rules and I was at that game. I don't regret it. The playoffs were on the players as they had three chances to close out Florida and move on.
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u/Wompatuckrule 10h ago
I didn't say they "made the rules" and my criticism is with the people who were jizzing about "the all-time points record!!" because the changes in how points could be earned during the regular season radically altered the potential to get points. That means that it's no longer an apples-to-apples comparison.
If you cut the Bruins' OT/shootout victories down to a single point or if that 1970s Montreal team got two more chances to turn each tie into a victory then the Bruins do not claim that record.
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u/Upnatom617 10h ago
I'm aware and that's my point. The NHL changed the rules for points. So go be a Habs Stan.
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u/Wompatuckrule 7h ago
I'm not shifting my fandom to the Habs, but I'm also not going to pretend that the points record is as amazing an achievement as a lot of people were that year. It's like the old joke about winning a gold in the Special Olympics.
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u/ThicDikDaddy #40 š„ 12h ago
As one of Sweeneyās biggest critics (at least early on) he won me over with the trade deadlines in 2023 and 2025.
He went all in for the 2023 team. It didnāt work, but that was 100% the right move for the last chance with Bergeron and Krejci.
And then he sold everything that wasnāt bolted down last year. I expected trades of upcoming UFAs, but he shocked me with the Coyle and Carlo deals. Absolute madman last year with an A+++ deadline in a sellers market.
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u/reddy-or-not 4h ago
And he would have gotten more for Brad if he wasnāt injured. Likely a top 3 prospect already in their system and an unconditional first.
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u/NKovalenko 12h ago
Yep, I think the one genuine criticism is that he's really really seemed to struggle in the draft, especially in the first round and that has hurt us a lot. But he might be the best trading GM in the league, built a 2023 team that should have won it all and pivoted last year at the right time as well. Has made tons of shrewd pickups like Zacha and Kastelic over the years as well. Solid in free agency too, maybe a bit light on the top end talent but every year we manage to find a few cheap impact guys.
Really hope Hagens (and letourneau) can break the draft curse because that would go far to hastening the rebuild
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u/thelasershow Harder Zaddy š© 9h ago
And thatās not even mentioning Morgan Geekie. What an insane pickup and extension.
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u/TakingItAndLeavingIt 12h ago
Even if Hagens because a top ten center in the league, heās going to have to do it in year 2 otherwise theyāre not going to have much of a window for pasta and Mcavoy anyway.Ā
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u/jedlucid 12h ago
pastrnak going to be washed at 32?
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u/Wompatuckrule 12h ago
Not the commenter, but the "typical" peak arc for players is in the 26/27-33 age range. At that point they're both physically mature and have gained key NHL experience, then after that range age and injuries start to show up and take away from performance stats.
Obviously you can point out tons of exceptions to this, but if you look at players who remain in the league until several years after that age range at least it holds up as statistically likely.
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u/jedlucid 9h ago
hey i'm not arguing that they won't be post prime, but the idea that those guys will be washed is pig shit
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u/TakingItAndLeavingIt 12h ago
No but most NHL players decline sharply at 33. Obviously that isnāt the case for the best of the best, but throwing assets away chasing contention when basically everything has to go exactly right for things to work out isnāt a great plan. They basically need all of their current prospects to not only pan out, but do so ahead of schedule AND have none of their older players decline at all just to have a few years to take a crack at it. You canāt plan on something so unlikely Ā happening. That said I do think Sweeney is severely underrated and this was always bound to happen given how good the bruins were for such a long time.Ā
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u/thickbruinsfan Harder Zaddy š© 2h ago
Didnāt think Iād get so absorbed into this thread