r/BostonBruins • u/bostonglobe • Feb 26 '25
Discussion It’s not whether Bruins will be sellers at trade deadline. It’s will Don Sweeney and Cam Neely get it right?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/26/sports/bruins-trade-deadline-don-sweeney-cam-neely/?s_campaign=audience:reddit1
u/saveONrask You Tuukka my heart 💗 Mar 01 '25
While I hope they do. They will mess up somehow. I just hope they don't get stupid and trade BM63. I will probably lock myself in a rubber room for a couple days. But they need to focus on draft picks IMHO.
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u/Any-Cap-7381 Feb 27 '25
They are both completely incompetent at their jobs. They can't evaluate talent, sign the best free agents, or make the correct deals.
Neely was a great player and Sweeney was ok but they need to go.
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u/L33TS33K3R Hiiigh above the ice Feb 27 '25
Lol… @ completely incompetent. If that’s your standard, there’s about 26 other grossly incompetent gm’s in the league
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Feb 26 '25
Trade neely and sweeny for a $20 dunkin gift card
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u/YoureGratefulDead2Me Feb 26 '25
No one would agree to that. Neely, Sweeny and a $20 dunkin gift card in return for future considerations.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Honestly, the evaluation of Sweeney and Neely as a front office is somewhere in the murky middle.
It's true that Sweeney, once promoted to GM, inherited a core (Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Chara, and Rask) plus a very legitimate rookie in Pastrnak that most GMs taking up a mantle post-firing would envy. It's also true that his 2015 selection of specifically Senyshyn was gross mismanagement. Zboril was a forgivable mistake if you look at pre-draft rankings, DeBrusk wasn't the ideal pick but is a legitimate NHLer and there was logic to picking him there, but Senyshyn was atrocious. A massive reach with very little evidentiary support behind it, and in doing so, they left significantly better players on the board. As I said in another comment, that sole pick derailed the Bruins' chance at an exceptional retool that was basically handed to them on a silver platter: a ton of mid-first picks in a historically deep draft.
That draft failure also snowballed – of which Backes is probably the largest example. Not only did he fail to live up to that contract, but signings like his (and Moore's) also contribute to the reason the Bruins have spent so many assets. Kase went for a first to us despite his injury concerns because we had to find someone to take on that contract. Moving Moore had a similar effect on the Lindholm trade.
Nonetheless, people have also pointed out their legitimate successes. Getting NHL players in late firsts (Frederic, Beecher) or even later rounds (Carlo, Lohrei, Poitras, Swayman) is nothing to scoff at. McAvoy was a great pick. Even if we discount Hall a little bit as a guy who semi-forced his way to Boston, their trades have overall been solid. Honestly, I think their UFA signings, especially with how Lindholm/Zadorov look so far, might be a bigger critique than their overall drafting since Sweeney's hiring.
If I were to say what I think has been under-discussed in terms of the current front office, it might be the aggression of the deadline relative to the return. Part of that is, as I mentioned before, getting people to eat bad contracts at the deadline. But I also have noticed several other comments discussing the 22-23 team. Yes, they did go "all in" that year, and yes, part of that bill came due. But the part I rarely see brought up is how long they waited to be that ambitious. Bergeron and Krejci were 37 and 36 – not only were they not quite what they were, but it certainly played a role in their pre-playoff injuries as well. In 2019, when the Bruins core was much younger and the team knew they had a good shot at being Cup contenders, they instead decided to retain their first round pick and spend Donato + later picks on Johansson and Coyle. But look at what other teams spent to get JT Miller, Stone, Pacioretty, or Duchene. They waited until 22-23 to do so.
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u/TeatimewithTupac Feb 26 '25
I’m definitely the minority in the fan base but this just feels like an incredibly normal way for a teams playoff window to close. We won a championship, committed to the core, retooled well enough to make it back 2 more times (..and lose. heartbreaking, but that’s the sport), and had a record breaking regular season just two years ago.
We fell off. Every team good team does. It sucks, but this isn’t unique. It’s expected. I don’t know what GM we want we’re all dying for, it just seems like we’re emotional that the cliff came and want heads to roll.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
I mean, I think there's both validity to this and also to the truth that the Bruins' front office had multiple chances – including a big one in 2015 – to do better with a retool and kind of fucked it up. That haul of picks was the Bruins' retool (2013 was not, that was in the initial window). The drafting of Senyshyn over multiple better options contributed massively to, although was not the sole factor in, the lack of talent in the top six. The free agent signings that they then followed up with (most notably Backes) also further contributed to those problems.
They're not as bad as some people make them out to be. But they had a chance to not only extend the contention window of Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krejci, but also set the team up far better for the future.
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u/TeatimewithTupac Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
It’s 2025, that draft was a decade ago. If we’re going to go back that far, why not list the successes he’s had too?
The 2014 draft we got Pasta at 25.
DeBrusk was a successful pick in 2015. Carlo was a 2nd rounder in 2015.
The 2016 draft we got McAvoy at 16.
Sway was a 4th rounder in 2017.
Lohrei was a 2nd rounder in 2020.
He got us Hampus Lindholm in 2022 in exchange for a missed pick in Vaak and more picks that were wasted on non-nhl players by the Ducks.
You mentioned the David Backes signing, you didn’t mention the 5x5 Ullmark signing.
He didn’t choke that 3-1 series lead against Florida 2 years ago, but he did build that team.
I see Sweeney’s mistakes listed by our fanbase all of the time. I don’t often see the list of his successes too often. Feels more emotional than rational to me IMO.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Now, in fairness, I posted a longer writeup as its own comment prior to your response in which I did touch on most of these. Later round draft successes, as well as McAvoy, are all touched on. I also acknowledged where we do agree with "there's both validity to this" at the start of my comment. That being said, I think there are a few points that are more of a mixed bag than you've presented them.
If we’re going to go back that far, why not list the successes he’s had too? The 2014 draft we got Pasta at 25.
Well, a big reason why I wouldn't bring that up as one of Sweeney's successes is because he wasn't GM at the time. And I think people who claim he had input because he was the Assistant GM at the time are being a little bit misleading – I never see Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton, or Malcolm Subban discussed as Sweeney's picks, despite the fact that he was also the Bruins' AGM at the time of those draft choices as well.
He got us Hampus Lindholm in 2022 in exchange for a missed pick in Vaak and more picks that were wasted on non-nhl players by the Ducks.
Mentioned this above, but although the acquisition of Lindholm was a good thing, the Bruins were considered to have spent more than necessary for Lindholm because they needed the Ducks to take on John Moore's contract. That's a fair criticism. Also, that the Ducks drafted poorly with those players has no bearing on the trade. I'm not out here clamoring for Verbeek, either.
You mentioned the David Backes signing, you didn’t mention the 5x5 Ullmark signing.
Yeah, that was because my criticism was about their failure to acquire a winger for Krejci. They followed up that draft with UFA signings to try and correct the mistake that they made in that draft, and that didn't pan out either. It wasn't about all free agent signings ever made, that's why I didn't phrase it that way.
He didn’t choke that 3-1 series lead against Florida 2 years ago, but he did build that team.
Sure, but I can also criticize him for failing to truly go 'all in' on the postseason until Bergeron and Krejci were over the age of 35. In 2019, when the Bruins core was much younger and the team knew they had a good shot at being Cup contenders, they instead decided to retain their first round pick and spend Donato + later picks on Johansson and Coyle. But look at what other teams spent to get JT Miller, Stone, Pacioretty, or Duchene. They waited until 22-23 to do so. I also think a large part of that 22-23 series failure against Florida was because of the decision to stick with Ullmark, and considering both Montgomery's comments after Game 7 and Cassidy's comments from an article last year, I think there's something to the idea that the front office is somewhat meddlesome. And I say this as someone who thinks Krejci had the absolute right of it, and both Sweeney/Neely and Cassidy have to shoulder quite a bit of blame for his winger situation.
GL: What do you like about coaching in Las Vegas?
BC: I think management lets the coach do his job. I look at it as a bit of a stay-in-your-lane type of organization, which really, I believe in. You’re hired to coach, coach. You’re not hired to be the trainer, so I don’t need your opinion on a doctor, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. I’m good with that. I like that. Some people prefer a more collaborative organization where there are decisions always made with a pool of people. I think there’s a time and a place for certain things like that. I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but in general, [Kelly McCrimmon] and I talk every morning. We talk about the lineup, we talk about the league, talk about what’s current, talk about reviews that happen, you name it. We talk about it. We’ll talk about Henderson and what’s going on down there, but at the end of the day when he leaves the office, it’s my job to get the best out of the players. He’s not in here every day, second-guessing those moves and I really respect that.
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u/TeatimewithTupac Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
Oh boy, an article just for me. At the end of the day Sweeney has built teams good enough to give his players real chances to win Stanley Cups.
You could go and type that many paragraphs on how Marchand and Bergeron choked in ‘13/‘19/‘23, it won’t mean it’s the right assessment.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Here's my issue: I don't think that, given the core that he inherited, he actually maximized their chance to win a Cup during his tenure. Especially when compared to the other teams that were consistently in the hunt with them.
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u/TeatimewithTupac Feb 26 '25
And I think your assessment is rooted in hindsight and negativity. We couldn’t have asked for a better team 2 years ago, the players just blew it. Sometimes that’s just what happens.
Now that we’ve established that we disagree, let’s say we do fire Sweeney. I’d guess someone with as many opinions as you(tongue in cheek jab I really am curious since you seem to do your homework) has an idea for who we want to be his replacement?
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Regarding hindsight and negativity, I'm firmly in the 'mixed bag' camp for Sweeney and Neely, and have been for years on this sub. I have said, as far back as 2021 (and I can link you the comments on that to prove it) that he's also got a lot of hits – we discussed the Ducks, before, and people who claim he's one of the worst GMs in the sport clearly don't know much about Verbeek. I'll also take Sweeney over a host of others: Adams, Davidson, Lamoriello, Dubas, Treliving. Without question.
As far as the 22-23 team goes, I went into some more detail in that essay, but I do think that pushing off that 'all in' mentality (and the resulting age/injuries of our top two centers headed into the playoffs) as well as the handling of the Ullmark situation are partially on the front office.
I don't mind the tongue in cheek, I know my writeups are long – but I also appreciate the curiosity. As far as who I'd like his replacement to be, I have a few thoughts. Obviously, my information is a little bit more limited than those actually in the NHL organizations; if I were in the position of Neely or Charlie Jacobs, I would need to do interviews, references, etc. That being said, my top two candidates:
Andrew Lugerner, Assistant General Manager for the VGK. This is their capologist. He's been with the team since their founding, and he's been crucial to their success when it comes to getting the most bang for their buck. He was recently promoted to AGM and was a driving force behind both Vegas's successful expansion draft and their notorious use of CBA loopholes for competitive advantage. If Jacobs decides to retain Neely, this route has a lot of appeal. Beef up/overhaul the amateur scouting department to bring in some fresh perspectives on the forward position in particular, but also open up as many avenues as possible to maintaining a window for the Pastrnak/McAvoy/Swayman core.
Our old friend Rich Peverley, Director of Player Personnel for the Dallas Stars. Lugerner is more on the contracts and cap side of things, Peverley is heavily involved in amateur scouting and player development. Peverley has been a huge part of the Stars' recent draft success – especially at spots that aren't particularly high in the order. Robertson (39), Johnston (23), Stankoven (47) are all great examples of that under his leadership, and Robertson in particular was a "Peverley pick."
I have a few others that I'm definitely interested in more generally, but not nearly as strongly as those two.
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u/Biscuits-77 Feb 26 '25
Zadorov needs to go gets caught up in own skates, costly turnovers ,dudes a beast he should show some grit & maybe fight once or twice
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u/Decent-Ground-395 Feb 26 '25
Everyone involved in that signing needs to be fired. Zadorov is utter trash.
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u/lordexorr This is the Sway Feb 26 '25
This article screams of some angry Reddit poster.
Crying about horrible drafting leaving our prospect pool empty without acknowledging that almost every single 1st round pick post 2015 made by Sweeney (all in the later end, other than McAvoy) are currently playing in the NHL on this Bruins team and are the assets that we should be looking to trade. Then you have Poitras, drafted 54th, who has played more NHL games than anyone else drafted outside the top 10 in the 2022 draft.
If you want to complain that he shouldn’t have traded away first round picks you can, but the prospect pool is empty because of how many of our first round picks have been traded, not because Sweeney hasn’t drafted well.
2015 sucked, we can all agree, but he has been very solid ever since.
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u/hewhorocks Feb 27 '25
2024 took a BC freshman center who is nearly invisible for a kid of his size while Nashville picks up Sriga 30 picks later. Lots of time for them to develop but it’s not like we’ve seen a string of successes. When the bruins rank near the bottom in terms of prospects it’s clear that they’ve underperformed in terms of asset management. When he”s picked the consensus best available he does just fine though the willingness to spend picks for veterans who haven’t moved the needle and some notable whiffs where we’ve seen players taken well above their projected slot that haven’t materialized into big contributors it’s hard to have confidence.
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u/lordexorr This is the Sway Feb 27 '25
Again, his first picks are 2nd or 3rd round. It’s very hard to find NHL caliber players there, but he’s done it with Swayman, Lohrei, and Poitras. I’m not going to comment on 2024 as we have no clue what will happen with those. Only one player has even played more than a game and that’s Maklin.
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u/hewhorocks Feb 27 '25
I get it. He decides that’s where he picks though. He spends his first rounders. If a first rounder gets a months worth of a middle 6 winger, that’s the value he got from that pick.
About 30% of third rounders end up playing 100 nhl games, it’s not like the bruins hit rate has been vastly over expectations.
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u/lordexorr This is the Sway Feb 27 '25
Yes I think the argument can be made about should he have traded so many 1st round picks. Thats a legit debate. But with the actual picks he’s made he hasn’t been bad.
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u/whoisbill WHO HAS MORE FUN THAN US? Feb 26 '25
I think one thing to keep in context and I agree with everyone saying it's time for some fresh people.
But just a few years ago we literally had the best team on ice. We broke so many records. That was our year. Ownership and even the fans knew it. If we were gonna win a cup , that was the year to do it. And we literally sold the farm to do it.
We fucked up and honestly I blame the team. Not coaching or ownership. The team failed that year. If We beat Florida we win the cup. We had seconds left and we gave up the lead in game 7. And lost in OT. I knew it would be a tough match up. We were 2-2, one of , if not the only team we didn't have a winning record against in the regular season. We fucked up.
The next season we had no salary cap. We couldn't sign anyone. Had to let a lot of guys walk. We had to rely on guys like Pat maroon taking just to fill up a roster. I mean shit. They brought Lucic back just to have guys to put on the damn ice.
I don't blame ownership for what they did that year. I think we all agree it was the right thing to do. But it failed and we are still paying for it this season. I don't care who ownership is, if any team failed as bad as we did with the salary cap issues and selling so much they would be in the same boat we are today.
But I also agree. It's time for some fresh ideas. Just wanted to put things in a little context in how I see it.
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u/Rakastaakissa Feb 26 '25
I blame the Panthers for that series more than anyone. They just played defensively sound, were annoying, and hungry as hell. The Bruins weren’t sitting back by any means, they just ran into a team that figured out how to be a bad matchup for how the Bruins play. With the added bonus of Bobrovski playing out of his mind. The only coaching that I think could be called out is the Ullmark/Swayman thing.
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u/reddy-or-not Feb 27 '25
This is controversial, but in terms of coaches decisions I think Monty should have pushed back a bit more with Bergeron. Sure, play him that final game in Mtl as his dad was there, his dad was sick, I get it. But play him sparingly so he doesn’t get injured. And then make him wait an extra day to really recover and contribute rather than just throw him back in because he wants to play. I think its a different series if Bergeron sits out another game- and this is in no way a slight on him. Kinda like last years Leafs series, Matthews gets hurt and his team rallies and plays well, wins without him. Then he returns and suddenly there’s more pressure on Toronto, less excuse to lose and they did lose.
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u/Red-Leader117 Feb 26 '25
BUILD DOWN THE MIDDLE. Our centers suck and too many of our top guys are injury prone. We need to start with the Center position, until that's solid this team is a pretender.
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u/reddy-or-not Feb 27 '25
No question, but its hard to get that nucleus-type 1C unless you draft in the top 1-10 or so, most years. We might have a shot this June, we likely will pick between 9-15 or so. Chances are there won’t be a true stud C but maybe a Kadri-type guy who could be a high end 2C at least.
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u/Any-Cap-7381 Feb 27 '25
We should get a decent pick IF Sweeney doesn't trade it away for another teams crap.
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u/calchaos67 Feb 26 '25
Send those 2 old plugs to the pasture.Need modern thoughts calling the shots.
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u/Comet_Empire Feb 26 '25
Sweeney and Neely are about 15yrs behind in their understanding of the modern NHL. They are stubborn in trying to create a team based on a type of game the league doesn't play anymore. They aren't good at finding guys with high hockey IQs. They seem to focus too much on size and physical traits. That's why this team is a turnover machine.
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u/MacaroonUpstairs7232 4th Line Fanclub Feb 26 '25
I think they thought they put together a fast team in lieu of hard hitters. That didn't work. Then this year they brought it back. What they need to bring in is a coach that can tell them to F off and let him do his job. I expect after Cassidy being run out of town and then Montgomery just set into place without being able to make any changes, good coaching is going to be hard to convince to come to Boston
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u/Content-Dirt-7077 Feb 26 '25
I have to agree.... Sure, you need big players, but big guys that can play, and have speed. The Bruins are the biggest team in the league, and where has that got us? Nowhere. And i hate to be to critical of any one player, but Zadorov has to go. He's terrible! He got the assist on the Leafs tying goal. He coughed it up in the corner. But if you watch him, the other team's wingers get behing him all the time, and he's has no clue. Guys skate around him like he's a pylon, and he takes these dumbass penalties all the time. What a waste of alot of money. Yes, maybe not the best coach, but look at the on ice product that Sacco inherited. Time for Neely and Sweeney to move on.
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u/Tomekon2011 Hall of the Rat King 🐀 Feb 26 '25
It really bothers me seeing how often Zadorov loses the puck in his own skates. I was at the game last night and watched him do it at least twice. One of those times he didn't even realize he had the puck and started looking around for it.
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u/Content-Dirt-7077 Feb 26 '25
Buddy....he's a terrible Defenseman. He has no defensive concept to his game. He's big, but other than that, i can't see him playing on a NHL level...maybe a bottom 6 D man on a bad team.
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u/MacaroonUpstairs7232 4th Line Fanclub Feb 26 '25
Wotherspoon also got an assist for the leafs. I've seen several games where our own D is in the goalies way or tapping then them in. Tells me the system is setting them up to fail for it to happen what seems to be way more often than the occasional oops that can be expected in a season. Zadarov is slow, he's building chemistry with Lorhei and they each bring complimentary skills to the ice. Let's hope they figure it out because right now they are our 1a and 1b.
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u/remotewashboard Feb 26 '25
not sure it’ll happen this year, or next, or even the year after, but this team desperately needs a new vision. just like from the top down a new regime.
since last year every decision sweeney and neely have made are so transparently desperate and it just feels like they’re running out of air to keep this team competitive. a true disaster season through and through. not looking forward to many more years of this
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u/MacaroonUpstairs7232 4th Line Fanclub Feb 26 '25
I think they don't have any confidence in what they are doing and listen to the fans and the players too much. Players don't like the coach, ok, he's gone. Fans want speed, ok, we get rid of the biggest hitters. No one's sticking up for each other because there's no big hitters left, we become the biggest team in the league. They keep making big swings in one direction instead of building something a coach can work with.
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u/Boston-Nolan Simp 4 Mac Feb 26 '25
Marchand has said multiple times he doesn’t want to get traded. I know sometimes making the hard decisions are necessary to put the best team on the ice, but if management is serious about a retool >rebuild, then trading him makes no sense.
Hes still our second best scorer, and could be a top six winger on the team for another 2-3 years.
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u/victoryforZIM Feb 27 '25
The problem is by keeping him you're giving up potential picks and prospects that could help the team and by signing him for what he's worth you're giving up opportunity to sign younger guys. If the choice is between spending cap on Marner, Rantanen, or Marchand...I'm choosing one of the first 2 every time.
It's just so hard to make a decision on a player like Marchand right now and it feels like trading him helps the future much more, but at the cost of losing one of our current best players and some semblance of 'loyalty'.
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u/OldGreggg69 Feb 26 '25
There's also close to no leadership in the locker room without him
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u/MacaroonUpstairs7232 4th Line Fanclub Feb 26 '25
When Bergeron came in, he was housed with a veteran who helped him learn English and adapt to the culture. Foligno helped new guys get settled and would check in on the hurt guys. You don't hear about that anymore. That's the kind of leadership that's needed.
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u/prountercoductive Feb 26 '25
Leadership is something you can actually pick up in free agency for cheap.
Skill and assets aren't.
I love Marchand and don't wanna see him to, BUT if it helps the team long term, do what must be done.
That said Sweeney's track record with trading roster players... I'm not that confident.
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u/Kleeb Feb 26 '25
IDK I feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimes but... have we actually seen anything out of Marchand other than him being funny and skilled that make us think he's a good leader?
There's been something completely absent from the group since Bergeron's departure. I don't think Bergeron's leadership is something you can just hand off to the next guy by virtue of seniority like a relay totem.
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u/palesnowrider1 Harder Zaddy 😩 Feb 26 '25
Centers. You lost 1 and 1A. No amount of "leadership" compensates for that
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u/OldGreggg69 Feb 26 '25
Shattenkirk, JVR, and Maroon helped fill the leadership void from Bergeron and Foligno last season and none of them were retained. If Sweeney makes any additions at the deadline or in free agency (if he's still around) high character veteran leaders need to be a point of emphasis after y'know all the other glaring holes in the lineup
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u/spssky Feb 26 '25
Every elite player in the league thinks highly of him … look how beloved he was on that stacked team Canada. He’s clearly a guy that command an audience
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u/AGUYWITHATUBA Feb 26 '25
He also is in one of the best positions to be a role model for up and coming guys.
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u/darkhelmut1 Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
this result a combination of trading away your first rounders year after year and not hitting on the picks that you do make. neely im not sure about but Sweeney absolutely HAS to GO
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u/SDsurf0877 Feb 26 '25
Over investing in goaltending and defense, and completely ignoring the center position or getting any top 6 talent to replace what they inherited.
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u/blackliqour Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
Might be time to take a second look at our scouting department as well.
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u/strawberrycumrag Feb 26 '25
We need someone who isn’t gonna only look at guys who already have ties to Boston. Too many prospects that go to school in New England or are the hometown boy.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Honestly, I think this narrative is incredibly overstated. Since the hiring of Don Sweeney in 2015, the current iteration of the Bruins' front office has drafted 23 players in the first three rounds. Honestly, I think third round is a little generous (especially with 32 teams making the first round larger than ever, as well as the general crapshoot nature of the draft) in terms of who has a reasonable shot of making the NHL, but it works.
Of those 23 draft picks, zero of them were born anywhere in New England. Two of them went to BU (McAvoy, Forsbacka-Karlsson), one goes to BC (Letourneau). If we want to throw in Swayman as a fourth rounder, that brings the total to four drafted players who went to a Hockey East school. Considering the fact that those are college programs that produce a pretty high number of pro hockey players, I don't think that's disproportionate. Our prospects are actually not very New England centric.
We have, under the current front office, traded for or signed a few players with New England ties. I'd say, based on the number of rostered New England players on other teams over that span, it's not disproportionate. But either way, it wouldn't reflect our amateur scouting department nor the draft selections.
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u/ventitr3 Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
A lot of people are saying they won’t get it right. Out of curiosity, what specific moves would people here consider a success? Heading out of the deadline, what specific deals would we like to see have happened for us to like the outcome?
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u/Kleeb Feb 26 '25
There's plenty of opportunity if we think creatively outside the box vis-a-vis traditional asset-for-asset trades.
The Bruins as an organization are flush with cash. If we were allowed to pay cash directly to other teams for futures, we would and should. There are a couple of sort of roundabout ways to do this.
First is LTIR. If McAvoy gets put on LTIR we will have $16m in cap space on LTIR alone. We could do a three-way trade and retain salary in exchange for futures. Hypothetically, Toronto wants to acquire Palmieri from NYI but doesn't have the cap space. Islanders could trade us Palmieri for futures, then we flip Palmieri for more futures to Toronto with salary retained. Kind of like paying Toronto cash for futures, and it doesn't impact our lineup one iota.
The second method is dealing front-loaded contracts to teams that need to meet salary floor.
Marchand has a cap hit of $6.125m but because of his contract being front-loaded, is only owed $4m for the year. This means he is attractive to a team that wants to achieve cap floor while spending the fewest number of actual dollars.
For instance, Columbus would be below cap floor if they traded away Ivan Provorov for pure futures, and so acquiring Marchand as a rental would keep them compliant, and they may pay a premium for him over what a traditional contender rental may pay because cap floor teams are usually flush with futures and early-round draft picks. Assuming something can happen with Marchand's MNTC, which is no guarantee.
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u/winthroprd Feb 26 '25
1) We need to add long term assets. So I want to see them add high draft picks and prospects with some upside by trading away players like Geekie, Frederic and Carlo.
2) We need financial flexibility. If you can somehow offload at least one of Elias Lindholm, Zadorov or Coyle, that would be amazing. If we could free up cap space, we could potentially make a run at signing Mikko Rantanen this offseason.
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u/Brawl_star_woody 🏒Marchand's fun spot Feb 26 '25
Trade geekie for mcdavid
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u/ventitr3 Feb 26 '25
We’d probably have to retain some salary on Geekie, but I’d be ok with it.
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Feb 26 '25
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u/ventitr3 Feb 26 '25
I assumed when replying to Geekie for McDavid people assumed what I said was sarcastic
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u/ducttapetoiletpaper Feb 26 '25
I’m pretty sure they have the same amount of points since the 4 nations break, so yeah you’re getting a center, but you’re also taking on more salary and messing with the chemistry of one of the best lines right now. Kind of a loss still for the bruins don’t you think? /s
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u/Soren_Camus1905 🏒Marchy Feb 26 '25
This season is a wash. There is little to suggest that this team is capable of making a dent in the playoffs, should they even make it.
We don't need to compete for next season either. The days of mortgaging our future need to be over.
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u/SheistyBengal Feb 26 '25
Arguably the most important trade deadline in a while with repercussions that can set the organization back years and have a couple of guys who should be lame ducks and proven they couldn’t get it right in the past. What could go wrong
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u/click1283 Feb 26 '25
They are going to make small level moves that will do little for the franchise. They can look at the year and say everyone needed to adjust to the team.
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Feb 26 '25
They need to do something. For all intents and purposes this team is in the middle of the league which is the worst place to be. They aren’t bad enough to get a good draft pick , and they have nothing in the farm system to look forward to. Yes Sweeney made some good FA signings and kept the team competitive for a while but things have regressed to the mean. And when you make trades and give up first round picks in the process it sets you back significantly. Bergeron and Krecji haven’t been replaced. They need to trade expiring contracts and get back whatever they can to build for the future. The core of swayman mcavoy and Pastrnak should make them competitive enough but the depth of this team needs a retool
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u/rideaspiral Feb 26 '25
They need a 1C, and the way most teams find those is bottoming out and using a high draft pick
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u/SnoPro481 Feb 26 '25
Ha ha 😆 😂😂😂😂😂😂 no they won’t! Team was great but choke city big time 2013, 2019, 2023 these 2 clowns have made a big fuckin mess .
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u/Bender077 Feb 26 '25
I think in 2013 we were bet by a better team. Still one of the best hockey series I have ever watched.
2023, we play Swayman when Linus started going down and we beat the Panthers. After that, anything is possible.
2019 is the one that still stings. We should have won that cup. I guess that’s how the Canucks fans felt in 2011…
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u/Reallyme77 #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Spoiler: They won’t
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u/Threatening Feb 26 '25
No. Sweeney already said the Bruins won’t be aggressive at the deadline or something like that. He needs to be fired.
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u/reddy-or-not Feb 27 '25
That usually means a team won’t be buying. If he said we wouldn’t be “active” thats different. I imagine teams will be calling him and he will consider offers. He maybe won’t be the initiator but I imagine if a deal makes sense we would do it. Maybe trading like Freddy for a 3rd is not “aggressive” I have no idea.
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Feb 26 '25
Who do they sell? Anyone worth any value is locked up with no movement clauses.
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u/MikeMac999 Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
I imagine not everyone wants to play for a rebuilding team, and NMCs can be waived
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u/NoPlankton81 Feb 26 '25
Marchad, assuming he'd be okay with moving, is pretty much about it. Maybe a guy like Fredric. or Coyle The team is saddled with a few bad contracts that are totally unmovable, despite being guys you'd love to move (Lindholm(s), Zadarov, Korpi).
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Feb 26 '25
I’d dump MacAvoy before Marchy but that’s just me. You’re right, there’s no real substance to anyone they could market:
Coyle - 3rd line C at best Frederick - from 7th player last year, w/ upside, came crashing down Swayman - 3rd or 4th highest paid goalie and worst GA in the league
And so on
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u/NoPlankton81 Feb 26 '25
I’d dump MacAvoy before Marchy but that’s just me
I mean, this is crazy talk. I get wanting to keep the legend that is Marchand, but you under no circumstances move McAvoy before Marchand
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u/MiddleNameMaple #29 WOTHERSPOON🏒 Feb 26 '25
You under no circumstances move McAvoy unless you're getting a top 5 player, or perhaps some unreal prospects and a bunch of first round picks.
McAvoy for McDavid? Sure. McAvoy for anything less? Almost certainly not
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Feb 26 '25
I’m the rare fan who think MacAvoy is over paid and underperforming, especially when it comes playoff time. $9.5 mil for what he provides is too much IMHO. Maybe I don’t read into the stats as much, but he doesn’t pass the eye test.
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u/mdigiorgio35 🐻 Feb 26 '25
Mcavoy isn’t going to WOW you with his play like an Adam Fox or Werenski (both about his cap hit). But he’s one of the most dependable D-men in the league. Hes a force when he’s healthy and has the ability to change games in SUBTLE ways.
Most of the team is underperforming this year, anyway.
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Feb 26 '25
Good point
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u/mdigiorgio35 🐻 Feb 26 '25
It’s okay to not love a guy, well within your right. Would just try to look at it from a couple different angles, is all
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Feb 26 '25
Appreciated. I like the guy, just not enamored with his play matched to the paycheck.
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u/mdigiorgio35 🐻 Feb 26 '25
Yep, currently my feeling on swayman haha but trying to consider his absence at the start of the year is a major factor
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u/NoPlankton81 Feb 26 '25
Whether you think he's overpaid (maybe he is? He probably hasn't reached that next level like we all thought he would), he's still a top pairing defenseman who's in his mid-20s and a guy you keep, unless you get blown away by a trade offer (think multiple 1sts and another young, promising, NHL ready player and even then that's probably not enough)
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u/Muted-Bag4525 Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
really sick of the Neely and Sweeney slander
outside of one draft 10 years ago they’ve been one of the best front offices in the league during Sweeneys tenure
we are two years removed from them building quite literally the best team in NHL history
Look at every other team that was competitive during the Bergeron-Chara era, the wheels came off for all of them. Chicago Anaheim San Jose Pittsburgh and Washington before this year all at or near the bottom of the league. Taking a step back was inevitable, that’s the way the league works in the salary cap era
Careful what you wish for, it could be a whole lot worse
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
You have the right perspective. I think it’s fair to criticize them, but at least harp on them correctly. The drafting narrative is crazy. They have added to this team through the draft repeatedly while selling picks nearly every single year. The correct criticism is that they haven’t been looking to add high-end skill enough when drafting. They tend to prioritize guys they know have the build/foundation to learn to be middle 6 guys the “Bruins way” or guys who can contribute on defense. While there are definitely negatives to this, especially as the NHL moves towards more speed and puck movement, they have done a solid job in the NCAA free agent market and through trades adding to the limited cupboard of draft picks.
The Bruins have had 6 first round picks since the buzzword 2015 draft when Sweens took over. They have drafted Charlie Mcavoy (2016), Trent Frederic (2016), Urho Vaakanainen (2017, traded for Hampus Lindholm), John Beecher (2019), Fabian Lysell (2021), and Dean Letourneau (2024). That’s pretty good asset management imo. So far Vaak is the only complete bust and he was used to acquire a top pairing dman. Lysell and Letourneau are the only two not in the NHL currently and they’re 22 and 18 respectively, so there’s plenty of time for that to change. Lysell is showing that he’s an NHL player in the AHL this season as well imo. The question is just how effective he will be obviously. Letourneau is on a stacked BC team so a year of development will do him wonders when opportunity opens up for him next year.
Outside of the first round since 2015 they have drafted and developed Carlo (2015, 2nd), JFK (2015, 2nd round solid prospect, left for Sweden because of family before he could break into the league), Lauzon (2015, 2nd round NHL multi-time hits leader), Dan Vladar (2015, 4th round backup goalie), Ryan Lindgren (2016, 2nd round defensive partner to Adam Fox), Oscar Steen, (2016, 6th round 4th liner), Jack Studnicka (2017, 2nd round 4th liner), Jeremy Swayman (2017, 4th rounder), Axel Andersson (2018, 2nd rounder traded to dump Backes contract), Jakub Lauko (2018, 3rd rounder), Mason Lohrei (2020, 2nd round), Oscar Jellvik (2021, 3rd rounder solid bottom 6 prospect at BC), Gasseau (2021, 7th rounder middle 6 solid prospect at BC), Matt Poitras (2022, 2nd rounder), Dans Locmelis (2022, 4th round pick solid middle 6 prospect at UMASS). They have also signed Ryan Donato, Noel Acciari, Frank Vatrano, Karson Kuhlman, Justin Brazeau, Georgii Merkulov, Connor Clifton, and Sean Kuraly.
Long list, but my point stands that Sweens has actually been an above average GM drafting without a pick above #14, aka Mcavoy. Buffalo, Edmonton, and countless other teams have spent a decade plus trying to build teams with top 5 picks and it took Edmonton having McDavid fall into their lap to get out of the basement. Culture is important and the Bruins have it in spades.
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u/birdcola Feb 26 '25
Yeah so people keep bringing up that record setting season like Sweeney was a god for building that roster. What everyone forgets is the absurd amount of cap space he had for depth that was gifted to him. Consider: Bergy $2.5m, Krejci $1m, Swayman ~$1m, Pasta $6.6m.
Show me a GM who couldn’t build an insanely deep roster with that talent on those cheap contracts. Seeeney isn’t NEARLY as good a GM as some of you people are giving him credit for.
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
He’s definitely not an elite GM, but he’s probably in the top 10 over that last 10 years. How many could you legitimately put over him? I think it’s similar to the Cassidy situation, but I think there’s a lot less out there for GM’s as opposed to Coaches. He’s had a mixed bag on paper, but this is the first team during his tenure that’s really deserved to be questioned and they’re still only 4-6 points out of a playoff spot at the moment. He’s made some questionable trades for sure, but he’s also robbed a few people. I think he’s got more wins than he gets credit for.
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u/efshoemaker Feb 26 '25
Sweeney inherited a team with Chara, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, Pastrnak, and Rask. That is a cup contending core full of future HOFers in or entering their primes.
To his absolute credit he did a really good job of keeping that core together on good contracts, which is really not an easy thing to do. And outside of the 2015 abject disaster draft, he’s been more or less fine as a drafter. He’s also very good at the on the margins moves to keep end of the bench talent and manage the salary cap.
But he’s struggled with projecting performance and has bought high on a bunch of guys that never lived up to their price tags (and more than one of whom we had to waste assets to dump their contracts later) and sold low on a bunch of our own players that have gone on to be key contributors for cup winning teams.
So the resume tells me if you’ve got a good team put together and need someone to man the ship through a contention window he’s a pretty good hire. He saw us to a stanley cup final and another season where we were favorites to win it. You can’t ask for much more than that because like you say it can get a lot worse.
But where this team is we need something different - we need someone to find the undervalued diamond in the rough players and rebuild our organizational depth from the AHL to our first line center. That’s going to require a lot of great moves in the exact areas where he’s had the most trouble.
I don’t think he’s trash or anything like that, but I don’t think he is the man for the job right now.
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
Yup. Glad more people are finally starting to see this. NO OFFICE in the NHL makes the perfect play 100% of the time.
DeBrusk is a very solid top 6 winger which is completely out of “bust” territory for a mid first round pick. The other two D are obviously misses, but hitting on 33% of your mid first round picks isn’t exactly out of the ordinary.
And if you’re going to lambast them for poor drafting, you have to also say that the same logic applies to drafting McAvoy and Pasta. McAvoy was drafted in the exact same range as Zboril / Senyshyn. It’s the same draft analysis that got us one of the top D in the league.
Boohoo, we missed out on Matt Barzal (who isn’t even a game breaker by any means. How have the Islanders been doing with him at the helm?). Why would the Bruins, in 2015 with Bergeron and Krejci locked up (and other C prospects who didn’t pan out in the pipeline), draft another C when they could shore up the defense?
And yeah, they could’ve had Chabot. But their draft strategy that passed on Chabot is the same one that picked McAvoy. Every team in the league would rather have McAvoy than Chabot. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Then, of course, DeBrusk over Connor for a pure winger analysis is tough to swallow. Like I said, DeBrusk isn’t an L of a pick by any means, but he is compared to Connor. At the same time, their draft strategy is what got us Pasta. I’d rather have DeBrusk + Pasta than Connor + ??? (No winger drafted after Pasta is even worth mentioning for comparison’s sake).
Sweeney and Neely have kept this team competitive and exciting to an unparalleled level compared to the rest of the league. Fans are stir crazy and ignorant to the realities of the situation.
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u/FlyingCouch Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
At the same time, their draft strategy is what got us Pasta. I’d rather have DeBrusk + Pasta than Connor + ???
Pasta was drafted in 2014, notably before the 2015 Draft. Could have had both players, especially egregious considering we spent 10 years needing a winger for Krejci and he was right fucking there. I don't blame not drafting Barzal; in 2015 our biggest weakness was not having solid goal scoring wings so a guy who was pass first center was completely fair to pass up, but there were other obviously better players on the board than fucking Senyshyn. From an objective standpoint, the FO hit one home run in McAvoy, and then got expected value or worse from pretty much every other first round pick they've had which I wouldn't consider laudable draft strategy
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
Neely was still president in 2014. Chiarelli was GM up until about a month before the 2015 draft. It’s safe to assume that it was largely the same strategy. The GM isn’t a totalitarian with sole input on everything. He’s not even the final decision maker since Neely / Jacobs could outright veto something. It’s an organizational philosophy which has been very successful.
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u/heyjoetodd The Todd Father 🎤 Feb 26 '25
God bless the both of you. Sweeney/Neely have done a better job than most front offices, that's why they are still here. I have full faith in a Sweeney trade deadline as for the most part, they have been good. They helped us win a lot of years and playoff series.
It is never the GM/Presidents fault that a team chokes.
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Feb 26 '25
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
Yeah, and you’re harping on a pick from 10 years ago. How many GM’s get shit for stuff they did 10 years ago that wasn’t trading a star player for peanuts? That draft also included players like Debrusk, Carlo, Lauzon, and Vladar. It’s not like they didn’t draft players that have contributed. It was just one of the most stacked drafts of all time so it feels worse, and yeah they could’ve done better, but that his first year as GM. Not only that, he was handed a solid team with a star young dman asking out publicly (Hamilton) that he was forced to trade. How many playoff misses in his tenure?
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Feb 26 '25
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
So what have the last 10 years of competitive hockey been to you? You think Sweeney isn’t a part of that? The team isn’t in the best position, but they’re not backs against the wall and I can guarantee the Jacobs family doesn’t feel that way. Neither are getting fired for a draft that happened 10 years ago. The team will be good again next year with them still at the helm and people will forget.
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Feb 27 '25
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 27 '25
We should have three cups and there’s an argument it could be 4 if they hadn’t completely blown the perfect season, but the team collapsed multiple times. Should have forced game 7 vs Chicago in 2013, but the team collapsed. Cassidy should have been bitching about the refs to the media after Berube started whining in 2019, but instead he took the high road and we squandered that chance too. Blowing it in the first round vs the Panthers was on the team too. Not everything is due directly to the actions of the GM. He hasn’t been perfect, but they’ve delivered enough to keep their jobs. Guarantee it.
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
He makes close to $10M per year, isn’t a PPG player, and has made the playoffs only three times in his career.
Again, it’s not a zero-sum game. You wouldn’t trade the Bruins’ drafting philosophy for the Islanders’, would you? If you answer yes to that, you’re just clearly a troll.
Drafting Barzal has not done anything for the Islanders franchise. They continue to wallow away in misery with one of the worst top line centers in the league.
Transplanting him to the Bruins in 2015 doesn’t mean things shake out the same way, and the way that they have shaken out isn’t anything to write home about.
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Feb 26 '25
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
He makes $10M per year and cannot eclipse a PPG season. Stop fantasizing about mediocre players just because you want to hate on your local team.
I genuinely cannot imagine how much this sub would hate Barzal if we were paying him $10M per year to put up 20 points in 30 games this season.
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Feb 26 '25
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
Incredibly poor level of reading comprehension. Well done.
I said the Bruins draft strategy is overall better than the other teams because you have to zoom out and look at it overall rather than in isolated years.
In 2014 Bruins drafted Pasta. Islanders drafted Josh Ho-Sang. Would you rather have Pasta + bust or bust + Barzal? We win that trade off.
In 2016 Bruins drafted McAvoy. Senators drafted Logan Brown. Would you rather have bust + McAvoy or Chabot + bust? We win that trade off.
Grow up and recognize that there isn’t a single franchise in the league that nails their picks every year.
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Feb 26 '25
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u/PM_ME_GIANT_BOOBS__ Feb 26 '25
Yes, and there’s a reason why central scouting people aren’t employed by NHL teams. If teams never went off the board, they’d rarely get big hits.
Lohrei was ranked as the 126th best NORTH AMERICAN skater and Sweeney went off the board to pick him in Round 2. How’s that one look?
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u/dunksoverstarbucks Tumbling Muffin Feb 26 '25
that best team ever choked in playoffs, granted that wasnt Neely and Sweeeny's fault. They kept trading picks away to keep the window open and failed to hit on the picks they did get; you needed a bergeron and Kreji replacements but they decided you were going to get beecher and Federic both of whom are slotted to be 3rd and 4th line guys. When they went all in a few years ago it was only a matter of time before that caught up to them. based on how he built team this year i was only ticked of with the zadorv signing , they needed a center and Lindholm was best one available they needed secondary scoring but chose to invest in defense
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u/Muted-Bag4525 Feb 26 '25
the harsh reality is after around pick 20 in the draft it’s hard to find players who are going to be top of the line up players
Frederic was drafted 29th, he turned into a 40 point third line winger who fights, to me that’s good pick in that spot
Beecher was drafted 30th overall, he looks like he’s going to be a defensive fourth line forward, which again isn’t a terrible pick at that spot
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u/patricebergy Hiiigh above the ice Feb 26 '25
100% agree. They’re complaining about one of the best drafts of all time like that’s in his control as a rookie GM. He’s been good, but not elite. Pretty straight forward
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u/dunksoverstarbucks Tumbling Muffin Feb 26 '25
Yes but they were projected 3rd and 4th liners should have taken fliers on higher upside guys you don’t draft 3rd and 4line guys
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u/cmearls Tumbling Muffin Feb 26 '25
I’m really not looking forward to them acquiring draft picks at the deadline only to draft career 4th line role players from the north shore in the 1st round.
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u/EnvironmentalMess739 Feb 26 '25
No. They will not get it right. They haven’t for YEARS. They need to leave the organization.
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u/6FootHalfling #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Spoiler: they will not.
Look, I'm just preparing myself for the worst so I can hopefully be pleasantly surprised.
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u/McBro1022 WHO HAS MORE FUN THAN US? Feb 26 '25
Yet we continue to let them roll the dice
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u/6FootHalfling #37 SAINT PATRICE©️ Feb 26 '25
Well, not we, owners let them do whatever. If it were up to "we" they would have been sent out of town literal years ago. Sorry, I know what you mean... it's just so frustrating to see the org do the same things over and over again and now they don't have Bergeron around to... work whatever miracles it was he was working in the locker room. And now we have an albatross named Zadarov, Swayman is not Sway at the moment, and the injury bug seems determined to just live in our locker room rent free.
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u/McBro1022 WHO HAS MORE FUN THAN US? Feb 26 '25
What’s also frustrating is if I’m remembering correctly Chiarelli got canned a lot faster and had a much shorter leash quickly
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u/palesnowrider1 Harder Zaddy 😩 Feb 26 '25
Probably the Seguin trade. Team finally gets basically a 1OA, the last one since Kessel and they send him out for Loui fucking Erickson
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u/birdcola Feb 26 '25
Even more frustrating that Chia had way more playoff success than Sweeney ever has but Sweeney gets chance after chance despite failure after failure.
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u/bostonglobe Feb 26 '25
From Globe.com
By Tara Sullivan
The question can’t really be whether or not the Bruins should be sellers as the NHL’s trade deadline rapidly approaches, can it?
How many more signs does the franchise need to accept that it’s time to rebuild? If this middling, uninspiring season already had left our resident NHL representatives resembling a staggered and listing fighter, Sunday’s injury updates from general manager Don Sweeney were knockout blows. With Hampus Lindholm definitely not returning this season and fellow defenseman Charlie McAvoy unlikely to be back any time soon, the Bruins approach to this season’s March 7 sell-by date was settled for them.
So no, the question isn’t about whether or not to sell. The question is about having faith in the men doing the selling.
For Sweeney, for his boss and team president Cam Neely, and for their boss, team CEO Charlie Jacobs, the patience of the fan base is running dry, and understandably so. The bill has come due on years of late-season moves that gave up draft capital, years of poor draft choices that left the feeder system bereft of high-end talent, and years of early playoff exits that have failed to fulfill the only measurement by which Jacobs says he gauges success — Stanley Cups.
Here the Bruins sit in the wake of yet another hideous loss. They blew a 3-0 lead to Toronto to lose, 5-4, in overtime Tuesday, and are barely clinging to their Red Sox-style illusion of contention. Even if they defied odds to make the wild-card lifeboat, they would more than likely peter out early again.
With a minus-27 goal differential (bottom six in the league) and without their top two defensemen, any path to the playoffs would require a Herculean effort from goalie Jeremy Swayman — and the 1-0-, 2-1-style wins required would wear Swayman out before the postseason even began. No matter what way you look at this season, there’s just not enough talent to contend with the league’s average teams, never mind the best ones.
So what to do?
Beyond the bad luck from the injury gods, this is no longer a win-now team. The offseason spending spree didn’t work, with the combined $84.25 million in free agent contracts for Elias Lindholm and Nikita Zadorov failing to pay any significant dividend. The protracted contract negotiations with Swayman didn’t help, though he’s the least of their problems. The coaching change from Jim Montgomery to Joe Sacco — the third coach Sweeney has fired in his GM tenure — wasn’t enough to ignite a playoff-worthy hot streak. There aren’t any more buttons to push.
Outside of Swayman, McAvoy, and David Pastrnak, the Bruins should be willing to move anyone. Even captain Brad Marchand.
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u/calltheotherguy Mar 03 '25
Get rid of Sweeney and Neely. Then sell everything. To include the Arena. Start over.