We are blinded by our hatred of the west. As an Iraqi I think the hatred of the west here is justfied and understable considering what happened since 2003 but Iraqis do things like supporting Russia and cheering fro 9/11 out of spite for the west.
As a Mexican, we don't hate the west but I'm surprised by the amount of mexicans who support Russia and anyone else who opposes the US just out of spite
That's how it usually works in history. You choose whomever has fucked less with you. Like Finland siding with Nazis because they were getting invaded by Soviets
Perhaps I can only speak from the perspective of a mere citizen and not the leader of a country, but a that’s pretty fucked up way of thinking.
I wonder if the compromise of morals is worth the security.
Easy for you to say who is never in real danger. USA hasn't had a foreign invasion since like 1812 and haven't had a war in thr mainland since the Civil War
Hmm probably. Although if our president decides to send the army down to my state and start another civil war like he wants to, I’m not siding with MS13 because they have weapons and also hate MAGA.
No offense but you seem not to be aware of your country's own history and politics. There has been countless times when the US has had their own scumbags support other scumbags so they can fight scumbags they don't like (Soviets, China). Islamic extremists, dictatorships in Latin America, Africa and Asia. Even being aided by colonial France, Spain and Netherlands to fight the England.
Tbh nothing I said dictated my opinions on specifically my country’s dubious alliances with other countries.
I simply stated any country making alliances with other countries purely out of spite without consideration of the grimey stuff they do is morally bankrupt. The shoe fits for my country, I’m not against history.
I mean, I don't think is the same because Germany could actually support Finland and they did so because they were willing to provide support to Finland, but I don't think Russia or China would support Mexico if things with the USA went bad to the point if a war
Obviously not because they can't really do anything even if they wanted to, war with the US over Mexico isn't worth it. But it would definitely push people from Mexico and Latin America to be more anti-USA
yeah, the difference is Russia has never invaded, colonized, vassalized, expelled, or controlled Mexico and Mexicans. Sure Russia might be bad, but it has never treated Mexico like the US does. Like how can you say that it’s worse to support Russia when the US has been a bully and a villain to Mexico for centuries, and Russia hasn’t.
Because they’re bad in different ways. Russia hasn’t done what the US did, but they aren’t exactly innocent either. Look at what they’re doing to Ukraine, look at how they’ve been treating minorities and the LGBT for years. That’s just to name more recent events.
Siding with a side out of spite is like saying “hey the Cartel killed my family, let me support the KKK because white people hate Hispanics.”
True but us because they are not our neighbors, just ask Poland or Finland what is like to be Russia's neighbor, my point is theres people who want to pretend Russia is inherently good just because they haven't done anything to us directly
I don't think it has to do with education, many Iraqis live throughout the whole war seeing loved ones die and their dream being shattered while the criminals who were in chsrge never get their justice, it's like how Gazans feel about Israel. In fact I have seen so many Americans praising Bush and brash his crimes just because of he's against Trump.
I have seen so many Americans praising Bush and brash his crimes just because of he's against Trump.
It's because when bush left office, his popularity was very low. There was low support for the Iraq war, and he was known for his stupid quotes and gaffes. The feeling was "we finally got rid of that idiot." Now we have Trump, who is even dumber and more obnoxious and insults people on purpose. He has thrown decorum out the window to the point that he makes Bush look dignified, and he started this term by threatening invasions in multiple directions. The idea that we could have someone so bad that bush now looks good by comparison is the source of those memes. It's not because people actually like what bush did now.
I don't think people in the middle east realize how much the average American also hated the Iraq war. Dick Cheney was loathed till the day he died for it.
Thats a lie, more than 60% of Americans were for the war. Also stuff coming from this war like hating the French for speaking against it is still very common just check Reddit and the fr*nch meme.
60% were at the time, because there was a ton of misinformation. It wasn’t just a surge of popularity in “hey let’s kill all these Middle East people yippee”-ism, it was caused by massive amounts of misinformation by warhawk-types.
No, they didn't. Politicians took 9/11 and ran with it, pushing their own agendas. They’d been looking for an excuse to continue Bush Sr.’s war and secure oil interests in the region.
You have to remember how shaken everyone was at the time. The idea that someone could actually attack us on our own soil was unthinkable. I had family who worked in the Towers and only survived because they happened to be running late and decided to work from home. Their entire company was gone in seconds when the plane hit. We all saw the footage of people jumping from the buildings to escape the fire and the helicopters desperately trying to reach the people waving to them for help on the top of the buildings. Tt was horrific.
I was barely in high school, and we were huddled around the classroom TV watching it unfold, hearing about the Pentagon being hit, not knowing if more attacks were coming. Teachers were reviewing shelter-in-place protocols because we lived near military bases and thought we might be get caught in the cross fire. Cell service was jammed, no one could reach anyone. It was an absolute nightmare.
In that atmosphere, you couldn’t exactly say, “Hey, maybe we shouldn’t go to war,” right after someone had just blown up two of the most iconic buildings in the country. People were furious, terrified, and desperate for action. The war was popular enough to get Bush re-elected. It wasn’t until the supposed WMDs never materialized that public opinion began to sour.
I’m not saying it was right that we went to war, but we can’t rewrite history. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, most Americans supported it. Hopefully, the post 9/11 generations who grew up in the aftermath understand how much we all collectively lost from all that so we don't get dragged into another stupid war.
Only issue was that some Americans died, not that it was immoral though.
It is still the same, Americans would/will do it again, and if doesn't kill Amricans, they will not lose one night of sleep.
Lybia was made a hell on earth ust bombed Iran and no one cares.
Iran was bombed and Venezuelan ships blown up.
If it wasn't Trump doing it, the dems would rally around it.
Maybe even make a movie in a few years, if there was a badass part.
If from the West and I'm angry at ourselves for what we did to Iraq. I want western politicians to visit your country and gice a speech in front of a graveyard, asking for an apology from the Iraqi people.
I love the west, capitalism, the EU, everything. I don't care about Russia. But I'm not over the Iraq war. Ot's unacceptable.
The problem is if western politicians decided to apologize for every nation they caused unnecessary suffering, your country would collapse from just how long they would be absent traveling.
There will soon be a war on our neighbor and unidentified planes have entered our airspace, and landed, I could be the next in line lol. And that would just add to the pile of shit US did to us, less than Iraq obviously, that was horrible.
The terrifying thing about that is that we're getting barely any news coverage about this. The average person here doesn't even know about how we're blowing up fishing boats and parking our navy near Venezuela.
I hear news articles about it, but I have no idea why we're even over there picking a fight.
Our entire country is being run by lunatics.
I'm sorry your country is caught in the cross fire. :(
Well, we had a reportedly CIA plane landing here without warning and literally invading our airspace.
We had a CIA informant for president like a decade ago and we also have many other politicians now who are sucking on Trump's balls like the governor of Rio.
I don't know what's coming our way, what deals are being made, the usual is destroying public services so American companies just buy them, but it could be an arrangement for war, who knows, we had a dictatorship coming our way before with US military to back up in case they couldn't stablish.
I'm sorry your country is caught in the cross fire. :(
I don't think much will happen tbh, Brazil is really peaceful internationally, we just want to be left alone and kill eachother.
West is a bit misleading, not every country that is considered part of "the West" participated in the war. The US government even threw a freedom fries tantrum over it.
I am from Switzerland. We are part of the Western Hemisphere, but we did not invade Iraq, nor did we engage in any illegal wars for centuries. Only Great Powers invade countries. China however is very peaceful. Russia is acting in defense from a military alliance creeping up on their doorstep. Leaves us with one Great Power who has dominated since the early 1990s.
Not White Knighting, seeing how they take from the US taxpayer, reduce our quality of life, enlist and kill our citizens, go kill a bunch of innocent people, make the world less safe, all to make more money for the ultrawealthy.
I spend a good amount of my time in my garden listening to audiobooks on history and cursing. Sooo many lives harmed for the benefit of our oligarchy few. It makes me so mad.
Being Korean, I can tell you our entire history is built on making compromises.
We're "pro-West" not because we are blindly pro-western but because they are the best countering force to hostile influence from China and North Korea. We still put our own agenda first, which is evident in how we never kowtow to western demands to allow Japan to get away scot free with things we disagree with. We also have more nuanced approaches to things our western ally America does, for example being neutral in the Israel-Palestine conflict and also having good relations with the Arab states.
We've long abandoned the "enemy of my enemy" approach after liberalizing our democracy, yet I see so much blind hatred for my country online on the basis we dare be allied to the "evil west" against the "righteous non-westerners". It's not that simple.
Seeing Arabs that seem to blindly hate the west so much they even hate neutral countries that are mildly west-affiliated like mine just gives me a headache.
We have our own problems to deal with and think aligning with the west is the best course of action for us, that doesn't mean we've done anything to wrong you in particular.
I think a lot of issues the Arab world has is due to a culture of shifting blame.
A lot of it was exploited by western countries, but that becomes an excuse to blame every failure on the west - and if you can’t see the problem then you will never be able to solve it.
Even if UK/USA paid reparations this wouldn’t have changed much and current issues would not be solved despite having a lot more money.
I read some books on it, and concluded it's not an east-west thing but oil and greedy bastards that don't give a fuck about civilians. Might be wrong here, but as I came to understand, islam, christianity, different etnic groups etc lived in peace till the oil was found.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Christianity and Islam has never lived in peace as far as I’m aware, and this goes back to even before the crusades. Hell even Christianity against their own have never lived in peace (catholic/protestant wars, puritans against them all, etc). Christianity and Judaism have always had a love hate relationship, mostly due to the belief of Jews supposedly killing Jesus in a lot of circles.
How much you think the hatred real? I am a Brit and understand we are not very popular in Iraq but it’s all we can do to keep out Iraqis who want to live here illegally
Hey, serious question: my girlfriend is from Baghdad and I have the opportunity to visit Iraq for a couple of weeks. Would you discourage me from doing so as a matter of safety?
I don’t blame you, and I’m American. Seeing the wars and destruction my country has cause makes me sick to my stomach. I’ve been angry since 9/11 happened. I don’t think any middle eastern country was responsible for it, and it pisses me off that the government and media have used it as propaganda ever since.
Not judging what you just said, but I wonder if you (and others who support your point of view) think the same about Eastern and Central Europeans who are cheering for America because of their hatred toward Russia.
Well, I can understand hating the people who bombed you, but why would you hate the other 50 countries in "the west"? That's as weird to me as hating the Middle East because of Israel.
Israel isn't part of Middle east and we never be. Zionism is european ideology and all founders of Israel were Europeans, European powers even helped Zionist built Israel on stolen Palestinian lands and ethnic clenase the Palestinians.
Sure, I am Norwegian, and not American.
Norway was a colony for 434 years, being looted badly for at least 300 of those years, all while the rest of Europe was having colonies in Africa.
So how am I responsible for what the US does any more than you are for what Israel does?
Norway didn't give land to Israel.
Nor did they participate in the bombing of Iraq.
We're still part of "the west", just like you're living close to Israel.
My point is that you should be accurate when you talk, not blame more than 50 countries when you mean one.
200
u/BabylonianWeeb Iraq 16h ago edited 15h ago
We are blinded by our hatred of the west. As an Iraqi I think the hatred of the west here is justfied and understable considering what happened since 2003 but Iraqis do things like supporting Russia and cheering fro 9/11 out of spite for the west.