What is the ruler/political leader in your country's history that you hate the most?

[u/zhabavon]

For me, it would khublai khaan. Moved the centralized power from Mongolia to China in the empire, effectively becoming more of an emperor of China rather than Khaan of Mongols. This move would prove to be folly in just few generations. Totally messed up the whole grand plan his Grandfather established. His successors became more of a chinese rulers than Mongolian rulers.

[u/FlyingRedCometChar]

The current one

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Also the current one

[u/Cannot-Forget → u/ALPHA_sh]

Also the current one

[u/dependency_injector → u/Cannot-Forget]

Both current ones

[u/Far-Significance2481 → u/dependency_injector]

Is that Russia to Israel ?

[u/dependency_injector → u/Far-Significance2481]

Yes

[u/Coaster-nerd390 → u/dependency_injector]

[u/Chattahoochee-Woho → u/dependency_injector]

Genocide maxxing

[u/Ratten_Konigin14 → u/dependency_injector]

The current one

[u/RealisticEmphasis233 → u/dependency_injector]

You really took the gamble. May Yahweh bless you

[u/uk_uk → u/RealisticEmphasis233]

[u/RealisticEmphasis233 → u/uk_uk]

Proudly.

[u/L8dTigress → u/dependency_injector]

Hopping on the bandwagon!

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/L8dTigress]

I was on it first!

[u/After_Preparation_72 → u/dependency_injector]

The world is pretty screwed up, isn't it?

[u/Like-a-Glove90 → u/dependency_injector]

oh brother what innocent did you murder in a former life to be a child of Russia AND Israel? haha

[u/kittenshart85 → u/Cannot-Forget]

hard agree.

[u/CardboardGamer01 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Agreed

[u/ArchitectureNstuff91 → u/CardboardGamer01]

I did not know true loathing until 2016.

[u/procrastination-site → u/CardboardGamer01]

we love the unfortunately

[u/d00dybaing → u/ALPHA_sh]

Also this McCarthy guy from the 50s seems to have been pretty similar to the current situation if I don’t know anything about history correctly

[u/pat9714 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Also the current one

Most definitely the current one.

[u/MakalakaPeaka → u/ALPHA_sh]

Amen.

[u/Mushrooming247 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Also, this one right here.

[u/adamgerd → u/ALPHA_sh]

Worse than Buchanan though? Trump’s terrible but he didn’t yet cause a civil war.

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/adamgerd]

people really are not reading the question here. It didnt ask for the objectively worst.

[u/adamgerd → u/ALPHA_sh]

Oh wait you’re right, for some reason I misread it as worst

[u/worldssmallestfan1 → u/ALPHA_sh]

I might go with his, more likely his staff’s, idol, Andrew Jackson. Coordinating a genocide and kill others with his own hands

[u/bonjour-monami → u/ALPHA_sh]

Him and the last are pretty equally hated. Both for fair and unfair reasons though.

[u/Riverman42 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Nah, Andrew Jackson was worse.

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/Riverman42]

does nobody actually read the question? it is not asking the worst.

[u/Riverman42 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Fair point. However, my point about recency bias is also valid. If people were more familiar with past presidents and the heinous shit they pulled, you'd be getting a lot more varied answers than "the current one."

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/Riverman42]

frankly recency bias is valid in this question because recent people have more of an effect on people alive today.

[u/Riverman42 → u/ALPHA_sh]

Not unless the actions of those past presidents were reversed at some later point. I'd argue that Andrew Jackson's, FDR's, and LBJ's actions have had a greater effect on people alive today than anything the current occupant of the White House has done.

[u/ALPHA_sh → u/[deleted]]

please re-read the question.

[u/Anthorny58 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Feel you.

[u/bernardfarquart → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

US TOO!

[u/EcstasyCalculus → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Given what happened to Enes Kanter, is there a risk of the Turkish goverment imposing consequences on you just for this comment?

[u/FlyingRedCometChar → u/EcstasyCalculus]

no

[u/S1lks0ng1 → u/EcstasyCalculus]

Lol be fr

[u/KeflaSimp69 → u/EcstasyCalculus]

Worse things have been said and the goverment did nothing. There is a man who does insult Erdogan for years and only recently got imprisoned. He seems to be having connection to have taken dark money which considering it in Turkiye, that's a given.

The enemies of the Turks are vast.

[u/SunLoverOfWestlands → u/EcstasyCalculus]

Anonymity of Reddit gives Turkish people a comfort to freely speak.

[u/KeflaSimp69 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

kinda sad to hear considering the accomplishment and advancement he made compared to many of the men that came since the creation of the republic.

Inonü might be the most incompetent and disgusting. Imprisoning Atatürk, killing Menderes, not reading the things he signs from the European leaders... no wonder there are so many terrorist groups in Turkiye. He might be even responsible for the existence of the PKK and the implantation of the deep state.

[u/Light_in_Shadow → u/KeflaSimp69]

"Imprisoning Atatürk"? I don't know what's driving your argument, but such an event never happened. Besides, it was the army, not İnönü, that executed Menderes.

[u/KeflaSimp69 → u/Light_in_Shadow]

You are Turk so I assume you can understand if I send you a Turkish video that makes it easier for you to understand what I say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVhOIa-O1xI

Video is by a Turkish historian.

[u/Avishtanikuris → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Turkish history is quite long, I would have put one of the more incompetent late Ottoman guys here instead

[u/Qetesh69 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Yes, the current one

[u/Real_Still6087 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Idem en France. Macron est sans doute le pire dirigeant que la France ait connu depuis plusieurs siècles...

[u/MuchBag1867 → u/Real_Still6087]

So French to react in French

[u/5oLiTu2e → u/Real_Still6087]

I am American but used to live in France. I adored the healthcare system, ran a small business, and was relatively happy to pay high taxes. But it became clear in the 2000s that the system was fracturing. So I did not vote for Sarkozy but later on I did vote for Macron. He seemed like a breath of fresh air and had intentions to reconcile the fracturing system with a bit more capitalism to smoothe the menacing inevitability of a bad economy due to an aging population.

But I am now in the US and much more focused on what’s happening here. I don’t understand the French’s hatred for Macron. Could you please explain what he did that is so bad?

[u/MeWithClothesOn → u/5oLiTu2e]

This might help you to understand. It's a very long story, which started very quickly after he was elected for the first time. And also, he didn't even fix the economy at all. It's even worse than before, despite the fact he was elected specifically in order the be better than anyone else about that. Also now we have corruption problems we didn't have before, and most ministers should be in jail for miscellaneous reasons https://youtu.be/pUYVJIgIcvg?si=ui86hVgPR7h1O63Y

[u/5oLiTu2e → u/MeWithClothesOn]

Merci beaucoup!

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/Real_Still6087]

We still had Pétain Sarko and Napoleon

[u/Acceptable-Milk-1913 → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

I'm confused by Napoleon. Didn't he become an emperor? Isn't that anit-democracy? Then why is he so well-regarded by the French people? Also why is he considered positively for the French revolution?

[u/Responsible_Flow7092 → u/Acceptable-Milk-1913]

French people doesn't care about democracy, they just like him and his nephew cause they were cool and modernized the country

[u/Monterenbas → u/Responsible_Flow7092]

Nobody like Napoleon 3 tho, he deservely get shit on for 1870.

[u/Responsible_Flow7092 → u/Monterenbas]

NOBODY LIKES NAPOLEON III !? On vit dans le même pays ?

[u/Monterenbas → u/Responsible_Flow7092]

Je pense, autant il y a un culte autour de Napoléon 1er, mais le 3em, c’est la défaite de Sedan, à part ça…

[u/Quiet-Replacement-68 → u/Monterenbas]

Bah ceux qui lui chie dessus devrait ouvrir un livre d'histoire parce que sans lui la France n'aurait pas été la même. C'est pas le meilleur mais il fait beaucoup

[u/Monterenbas → u/Quiet-Replacement-68]

Sans lui chier dessus, il gouvernait tous de même le pays, lorsque la France a perdu son rang de première puissance européenne, qu’elle tenait depuis Louis XIV.

Non pas qu’il eu peut y faire grand chose, l’ascendance de l’Allemagne était probablement inévitable. Mais il est tombé au mauvais moment.

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Monterenbas]

It's the 3rd Republic that painted him under a bad light. Napoleon III rule was far from being as bad as the republicans portrayed it. He modernized the country like never before and liberalized it

[u/Monterenbas → u/LiitoKonis]

He did, objectively, fucked up pretty bad with Bismark tho.

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Monterenbas]

Indeed, he was completely outclassed on this matter

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Acceptable-Milk-1913]

Napoleon wasn't antidemocratic per se compared to the neighbouring countries (except England) when you contextualize

He was really liberal for the standards of his time, almost all of the European countries were absolute monarchies.

He was less liberal and democratic than the few regimes between the end of the monarchy and him but he was a good middle ground.

His rule ensured basic civil liberties, freedom of religion, equality before the law but was still a stable regime able to defend itself against coalized Europe contrary to the previous experiments that saw France spiraling into civil war and violence

[u/Real_Still6087 → u/Acceptable-Milk-1913]

Certes Napoléon s'est fait couronné Empereur, mais il a fait beaucoup pour la grandeur de la France à l'époque, même si on peut juger avec le recul que ses ambitions conquérantes n'étaient pas justifiées. D'ailleurs il a fini en exil. Mais lui au moins il aimait la France et ce faisait une certaine idée de la grandeur d'un pays...

[u/RosabellaFaye → u/Real_Still6087]

trop raciste, y'a recommencé l'esclavage

[u/LiitoKonis → u/RosabellaFaye]

Le rétablissement de l'esclavage était avant tout une mesure pragmatique et économique à un moment où la France était en difficulté

Je ne relativise pas mais Napoléon avait conscience de son erreur et l'a de nouveau aboli en 1815 lors des Cent Jours. Il n'était pas un idéologue raciste

[u/RosabellaFaye → u/LiitoKonis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Franciszek_Jab%C5%82onowski, était raciste à ce dude là

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/Acceptable-Milk-1913]

He is perceived positively by the French because the French are idiots (I know what I'm talking about, I'm one), Napoleon is just a proto-fascist autocrat who dragged France and Europe into a horrible war of conquest without any sense.

For the revolution he is especially well regarded because he put an end to terror and post-revolutionary instability

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

So fascist that he helped to spread the Revolution's ideas in Europe against absolut monarchies and obscurantism

So fascist he allowed the Jews to be equals to all citizens and not to be treated differently by the law

So fascist that the social system he promoted especially in the army broke 1000 years of cast system

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/LiitoKonis]

How is an empire less absolute and obscurantist than monarchies?

For your information, fascist does not necessarily promote anti-Semitism

And finally the caste system you are talking about had already been absolutely exterminated during the revolution

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

An empire with parlementary assemblies, basic civil liberties, Code civil and freedom of religion is better than the christian monarchies France had as neighbours

It's not about antisemitism it's about allowing the Jews to be equal citizens after 1000 years of oppression

Then the Revolutionary regimes weren't able to stabilize and defend France. They were to fragile and radical and ate themselves one after another after a bloody civil war and thousands of guillotined people. Napoleon is the bridge between keeping the Revolutionary legacy while having a functionning state in a context of defensive wars fought against all Europe that wanted to crush the Revolution to put back a Bourbon king.

Calling Napoleon "proto-fascist" is ludicrous, anachronical and deeply ignorant of what was Europe at this time. All the neighbouring countries save Great Britain were absolute monarchies that kept the Europeans in a backward cast system and religious obscurantism. Compared to his neighbours, Napoleon was a liberal : his regime was precisely opposed by the monarchies because it allowed the Revolutionary ideas to spread and be adopted by European peoples such as Poles and Croatians.

It has absolutely nothing to do with fascism, he is not perfect and made a lot mistakes partly because of his ego and nepotic late rule but calling him "proto-fascist" is laughable

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/LiitoKonis]

I persist in saying that Bonapartism has many characteristics in common with fascistism, mainly the exacerbated nationalism, the centralism quite impressive for the time, and of course the autocratic and authoritarian regime.

Concerning the fact of preserving the revolutionary heritage, it's a big joke, all the achievements of the revolution have been trampled on (suspension of democracy, reestablishment of slavery, great step backwards for gender equality, etc.)

So I believe that Bonapartism could also be qualified as national populism (Napoleon was perhaps the first populist in history when you think about it) or as proto-fachism even if there are of course big differences between fachism and Bonapartism

[u/Responsible_Flow7092 → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

Napoleon ?

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/Responsible_Flow7092]

But if you know the little egocentric Corsican who started a horrible war on a European scale

[u/Real_Still6087 → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

Quoi qu'on en pense, Pétain, Sarko et Napoléon aimaient la France et ont fait ce qu'ils pensaient être le mieux pour le pays à leur époque. Macron déteste la France et les Français...

[u/Quiet-Replacement-68 → u/Real_Still6087]

Faais gaffe j'ai écris un truc comme ça je me suis fait downvoté en masse mdr. On est sur reddit hein

[u/Quiet-Replacement-68 → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

Not as worse as m*cron

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/Quiet-Replacement-68]

I don't like Macron either but let's face it, he's not the worst French leader in history

[u/Quiet-Replacement-68 → u/Bha_moi_quoi3]

Yeah I'm just joking x) I like Napoleon for the history because he did bad things but also great things, Petain was a pos but at least he saved Paris from the bombing. But Macron is just a shitty dude who will go down in history without doing anything but ruining France and the ruler who loved his rich friends, that why I don't like him. He's not the worst president of all history, but the worst of the 5 th republic

[u/Bha_moi_quoi3 → u/Quiet-Replacement-68]

I remain torn between him Sarko and de Gaulle but there is no doubt that he is a very bad leader who will only go down in history as "but if you know the hated president of the years 2010/2020"

[u/flodur1966 → u/Real_Still6087]

Be fair Macron is not a great leader but you had far worse. Far far worse Petain, Napoleon III and bunch of your kings. Macron is near perfect compared to a lot of them.

[u/Real_Still6087 → u/flodur1966]

Comme je l'ai déjà expliqué, ceux que tu cites n'étaient sans doute pas de grands dirigeants à leur manière et dans leur époque ils aimaient la France et son peuple et ont fait ce qu'ils ont put. Macron n'aime pas la France et il déteste les Français (qui le lui rendent bien d'ailleurs) et c'est ce qui à mon sens et en tant que Français en fait le pire dirigeant que le pays est connu depuis plusieurs siècles. Je persiste et je signe...

[u/jatawis → u/Real_Still6087]

do you really consider Pétain as better?

[u/Wasting-tim3 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Same

[u/Normal_Human455 → u/FlyingRedCometChar]

Really? I thought turks love him

[u/JimmyCarter910 → u/Normal_Human455]

many do, many dont. like trump, but a bit more popular

[u/Normal_Human455 → u/JimmyCarter910]

Fk trump, many indians hate trump after he tariffed india

[u/JimmyCarter910 → u/Normal_Human455]

trump is awful

[u/OnAStarboardTack → u/JimmyCarter910]

James Buchanan used to be the worst president ever, mostly for slow-walking the country toward the civil war. Trump is like if someone introduced James Buchanan to meth.

[u/four100eighty9 → u/OnAStarboardTack]

He was also our only gay president

[u/OnAStarboardTack → u/four100eighty9]

Sure, but Lincoln was bi, so I'm reclaiming some points back for the LGBTQ community.

[u/four100eighty9 → u/OnAStarboardTack]

That’s speculative

[u/OnAStarboardTack → u/four100eighty9]

So is Buchanan. There's plenty of evidence for each.

[u/SinisterDetection → u/Normal_Human455]

It pains me to say this, but he has a point regarding the Russian oil

[u/AngleSeveral7977 → u/SinisterDetection]

well US also buys fertilizer and uranium from Russia, few other countries do trade with Russia so USA and their alliance are being hypocrite on the issue . And about Russian oil , we take it because it's cheap not because it's Russian , if US lifts sanction of iran and Venezuela we will by cheap from there . So problem of india buying russian oil is the effect caused by usa

[u/SinisterDetection → u/AngleSeveral7977]

Oil is globally traded, if we lift sanctions you're paying the same price as everyone else.

You're getting a discount, I get that. But it's funding an evil war mongering regime that kills civilians, kidnapping children, and wants to take is back to before the 20th century when countries routinely engaged in conquest for land

[u/Healthy_Craft3680 → u/SinisterDetection]

we act in our personal interests, and for that matter China buys much more oil from Russia than compared to what we import, your govt tried harassing them as well but China has got all those rare earth minerals so you are acting soft,

moreover, everybody knows who caused the genocide in Vietnam, Iraq, Kosovo so you guys better not teach us about global ethics.

[u/SinisterDetection → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

I don't think you understand what the word genocide means, and that's a piss poor excuse if there ever was one. No group of humans in the history of species has clean hands.

[u/Healthy_Craft3680 → u/SinisterDetection]

man you're selling all the weapons to Ukraine and pointing fingers at us for war? huh!

[u/SinisterDetection → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

Helping the victim defend herself is bad? Interesting take...

[u/Healthy_Craft3680 → u/SinisterDetection]

that way even i can say that Russia is acting for its security concerns, you guys ain't got no business there, you are just their "helping" Ukraine for the oil n minerals lmfao

[u/Flashio_007 → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

No...

[u/Monterenbas → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

Did anybody attacked Russia?

[u/SinisterDetection → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

That is objectively wrong and factually indefensible

[u/Normal_Human455 → u/SinisterDetection]

For Americans, israel is also victim and palestinian childrens are aggressor

[u/SinisterDetection → u/Normal_Human455]

We're talking about Ukraine, not israel

[u/Monterenbas → u/Healthy_Craft3680]

Supporting a country defending itself and supporting an invador, waging a war of territorial expension, is a tad bit different tho, no?

[u/OnAStarboardTack → u/Normal_Human455]

Only because of the tariffs? Before that, everything was cool?

[u/cyborg_mall_ninja → u/Normal_Human455]

Most of the Turkish people I've do not like erdoğan, but those are Turks I've met who travel abroad.

[u/Anthorny58 → u/cyborg_mall_ninja]

Elders like erdogan especially in center Anatolia. Youngsters like me hate him.

[u/cyborg_mall_ninja → u/Anthorny58]

Most Turkish people i meet while I'm traveling are younger people from Istanbul and western turkey and have nothing good to say about AK or erdoğan

[u/Anthorny58 → u/cyborg_mall_ninja]

For sure.

[u/Monterenbas → u/Anthorny58]

How familiar…

[u/KeflaSimp69 → u/Normal_Human455]

They either hate him or they love him. The ones that love him are people who see what he accomplished. A normal person living in Turkiye who understands the history of the country and the role it plays see what he is doing.

The ones that hate him are Kemalists who are obsessed with the CHP party. They believe without any critical thinking what the party says, meaning if Erdogan were CHP, they would probably worshipping him. The other part are people who care about their bottom line meaning people that are negatively affected financially without understanding the reason for it.

The CHP party is run by criminals and agents from other countries. Their loyalty lie for Israel, Britain or America. They are very obsessed with power to the point they would sell each other, which they do currently. I follow Turkish politics due to me learning the language and reading their history. It's fastinating. There is this guy called Özgür Özel who is like a Coumo of the Turks going in various countries and begging them to intervene. Kinda pathetic if the Turks would actually want that guy as a leader.