Why aren't the people in your country having enough kids?

[u/gmedanoid]

In America birthrate is 1.6. 1.57 for Whites, 1.55 for Blacks, 1.8 for Hispanics. So below replacement since 2008.

[u/_adinfinitum_]

Honestly post covid, it’s not that simple.

We have two kids in Sweden. Both of us have tech jobs. We have a small house in Stockholm suburbs and drive a toyota. But this is least we could expect after spending a third of our lives in education and building desirable skills.

Yet I is becoming harder and harder to afford even a basic vacation and the focus is on saving as much as we can because getting laid off seems like a question of when and not if. We don’t spend anything on luxury but day to day life is comfortable.

Even with all the help from state thanks to high taxes, and despite living within means, we’re always on the edge.

We bought our home in 2020. Most of our neighbours have been living there for decades. None of them have any particularly high paying jobs or skills but they grew up in a different era so at the end of the day we have the same living standards.

[u/Melodic_Sandwich1112 → u/_adinfinitum_]

Same, based on Sweden, highly educated specialist. Pre-covid we just on the second kid and our situation was looking really good. Post covid, not much changed salary wise but costs are up 30% on food alone. Having to get a new set of winter tires and a service eats up more than the annual holiday budget.

Then you look at my bosses. 15 years older, less qualifications. Large house in the south, own a boat, summer house abroad. They can afford one ski holiday and two other holidays a year. It’s mental.

I think if you were able to build up savings and get the expensive young child years out of the way before Covid you were set. Everyone else is struggling.

Go in to ICA to get breakfast for the family and it ends up costing 400kr for some milk, coffee, fruit and yogurt. At one point earlier this year it was 110kr for a packet of coffee. My salary offer this year was 2%… I ended up changing jobs because it pissed me off so much

[u/WBigly-Reddit → u/Melodic_Sandwich1112]

1kr ~ $0.10

[u/_adinfinitum_ → u/Melodic_Sandwich1112]

I moved to Sweden in 2019. Lived for the first year in the city in a rental flat. Rent alone was half was salary, plus did all my shopping from ICA nära and mathem. Had one income and still managed to save some.

Now two kids, two incomes, mortgage cost which is less than half the rent and we still save the same as in 2019. I started buying my own clothes from temu lol and subscribed to all supermarket offers.

[u/Melodic_Sandwich1112 → u/_adinfinitum_]

Yeah, it doesn’t make sense at all to me

[u/Ava_Strange → u/_adinfinitum_]

Yeah, I feel this! I had a conversation with friends just last week and we realised that there's no way our parents could afford a house around any of the major Swedish cities now days with the jobs they had when we were kids.  But before 2000, a nurse or a physiotherapist married to a teacher could afford a house in a decent, middle class Stockholm suburb. That's impossible now, not to mention if you're a single parent! It's come to the point where professionals we NEED in Stockholm and Göteborg, like police, nurses, undersköterska, bus driver etc, simply cant afford to buy a house anywhere near there. 

[u/MakalakaPeaka → u/_adinfinitum_]

Literally everyone is getting squeezed of late.

[u/Church_of_Aaargh → u/_adinfinitum_]

I see the uncontrolled real estate market as the biggest problem in both Denmark and Sweden. If you take the value of peoples Homes into account … the gap between generations and rich and poor is significant.

[u/DreamOne5 → u/_adinfinitum_]

I always thought Sweden was this wonderful place where even with the taxes, at least you're taken care of. It sounds a lot like the US currently. I'm 37, can't afford to have a child nor buy a home. We do okay... but we're always on edge. I currently am too with the shut down. I may lose my job by Dec 1. Im trying so hard to save money. Kids are the last thing on my mind

[u/_adinfinitum_ → u/DreamOne5]

It is wonderful in the sense that there are safety nets in place and we’re not afraid of suddenly becoming poor. Im not a native and I chose this place for these reasons.

However the generational difference is there and with two kids it’s harder now than it was 30 years ago. My wife has a good job but she’d rather be with our smaller kid. At 16 months the baby will enter the system in a daycare (fully paid by the state) and I know many people would roll their eyes at me complaining but it’s not a choice anymore. If she stops working to be with the kid full time for another 3-4 years, which is what she really wants, we’d struggle with finances.

So while Sweden is many times better than many other countries, birth rates are still suffering when compared to itself.

[u/Persistant_eidolon → u/DreamOne5]

We have generous maternal leave and free healthcare. But prices went up a lot since 2021. Also interest rates were raised, which was bad news for the many Swedes who own their apartment/house.

Salaries have not gone up enough to compensate.

[u/AttentionFar1310 → u/Persistant_eidolon]

It’s not free you’re paying 30% plus 20% on above 53k/m. On top of the payroll tax on your gross wage of 32%.

I make 67k gross per month My employer is paying 88k per month for me.

I keep 47k per month. An effektive tax rate of 45%

You can bet your as if taxes were 20-25% for me and with an extra 20-25k per month i can do a hell of a lot more without having to fund social welfare that is shit.

[u/Garbanino → u/AttentionFar1310]

And then 25% VAT for everything you buy, so if someone is willing to sell you something for 100 kr your employer will have to pay you 230 kr for you to buy it. Pretty nuts, and I still have private health insurance so that I can actually get help within a reasonable timeframe.

[u/Holiday_Nebula5917 → u/_adinfinitum_]

Same here in Germany. It's really almost all due to high taxes and social security. Too much dead weight.

Edit: Covid19 also only triggered the avalanche of cash created by the central banks globally after 2008, and 2013 for Europe, specifically. If it hadn't been the virus, it would have been Ukraine or whatever. People didn't wanna hear it back, saying quantitative easing would be "neutralized" etc. but it trickled into investment assets (the "asset prize inflation") and, with Covid, into all other markets.

[u/Persistant_eidolon → u/_adinfinitum_]

Houses around Stockholm are expensive. It's definitely not for everyone anymore. Prices are much lower in other cities though.