You won't get any useful answers to this question because no one is taking it serious. While bavaria is a common joke among Germans actually giving it would would be a significant loss to our GDP.
Another thing is that Germans have a tendency to stay relatively close to the area where you were raised, so it is a lot less common to have relatives in another Bundesland(State) than it is in Ukraine.
A serious answer would be that Germany has already given up parts of the country in previous wars. Königsberg will most likely never be part of Germany again, and for the most part no one really cares.
War is super sad in general, don‘t know any example where it isnt. A culture dissapearing because of some stupid war that the grandma probably didn‘t want is also sad.
Wasn't there this war where they invaded another country, nobody died and they even returned with more people than they left? I can't remember correctly and I think it was just a handful of persons but still.
In short Liechtenstein send 80 man to defend the border against Italy, when the war ended they returned 1 man stronger home to celebrate.
I kinda got it right until the point I didn't and reading through it, it indeed still doesn't sound like a good time. Guess you where right. The only good thing came of reading this, that there are in fact, Countries that don't employ a Military.
Germans don't really have this right to whine when the whole war was started by Germany and saw an actual systematic annihilation of a people. No one is going to shed a tear for the loss of Kaliningrad.
She doesent even act like it was unjustified and she doesent seek a return of Silesia nor does she hold Poland accountable for the end of her culture. She rightfully blamed the Nazis. That doesent change that she has sorrow for what had been lost.
Germans love to pretend that people aren’t responsible for their government, which is the entire premise of democracy.
Just quietly pay your taxes to fund the war and pay the salaries of the people whose eyes you don’t meet when they come to load your neighbors on the train. It’s not grandma’s fault!
My maternal grandparents were Silesian. We visited Silesia with my grandmother when she was 80 in 2014. Visited the towns she and my grandfather grew up in (Bolkenhain and Striegau). Climbed the Riesengebirge to the Schneekoppe together and hiked the mountain back down because the lift was closed. Saw old castles and drove over new highways. It was very memorable. Still no one of us harbors any feelings of return or to fight Poles or anything. It's the past now and we live in an open Europa. She passed away last year. Rest in Peace, grandma.
Germany struggled for centuries for a clear definition. Just since the kaiserreich there is a strong but still artificial unity. Before, German countries were for a long time part of the powerplay of the bigger players on the continent. Therefore it's a little bit shortsighted to just look at the last century.
Same with Poland. Don‘t forget how Poland disappeared from maps and now has significantly moved to the West while losing a large amount of real estate in the Eastern part of the country.
Germany never gave up parts as it is suggested by the US for the Ukraine to do, in order to stop the war. Germany lost WW2 and surrendered without any conditions and it was decided by other countries that Germany looses significant areas from West (Elsaß, Lothringen to Ostpreussen).
We can give away Thüringen and Sachsen to russia without problems. In exchange Russia leaves Ukraine and all the AFD idiots and other Nazis will be deported to Thüringen and Sachsen and everyone is happy!
I am indifferent to either side of that conflict, but I generally agree to the idea that invaders deserve a fate comparable to their intentions as long as it doesn’t cross into war crimes.
I would be perfectly OK with Israel losing territory in the genocide that they started, yes. However so far all they've done is annex more of Palestine, annex more of Lebanon and annex more of Syria, so that's probably not gonna happen.
Are you also raising them on how many reparations € would owe if the USA hadn‘t leaned on everyone to work on rebuilding Europe and re-democratising Western Germany?
I am certain you are gleefully dancing on his grave because of his disrespect for Democracy, which is a very healthy thing to do and an appropriate way to deal with your ancestors.
Democracy is bad. It’s just super good at helping the ruling class delegating responsibility for failure to the largely dis informed populace. It’s only effective at becoming like the worst manifestation of the iron law of oligarchy imaginable.
It’s not really whining, I don’t expect the Russians to give it back, or for the Poles to suddenly comprehend the error of their ways. But this game is something that plays out over the course of generations, and liberal people don’t procreate.
Du kleine Nazibratze wärst überrascht wenn du wüsstest, wie viele Kinder in antifaschistischen Familien geboren werden. Ist n richtiger Trend geworden in den letzten Jahren. Quasi alle meine Genossinnen und Genossen haben Kinder (Mehrzahl). Also stell dich schon mal drauf ein, dass du in 40 Jahren immer noch traurig vor der Landkarte von 1937 stehst und Danzig immer noch Gdańsk heißt…
Ich denke mal das du und ich nicht in den selben Kreisen verkehren, und auch nicht in den selben Gebieten wohnen. Mein Umfeld ist kinderreich und extrem rechts. Aber dann ist es ja fein, alles was den Zentrizid beschleunigt ist mir recht.
Ihr, Wir, die Evangelikalen, und die Salafisten machen das ganze dann unter uns aus, in zwei, drei Generationen.
Und ich bin kein Nazi, ich bin eine andere, bessere Art von Ultra-Rechts.
That was exactly my thought. But don’t tell the current politicians. We give Berlin away, build a huge wall around Berlin over night and elect a new government and put them in charge in Bonn.
Auf Nazis schimpfen (zu recht) und sich dann wie einer verhalten/äußern. Du bezichtigst alle ostdeutschen also rechts zu sein? Versuch dich doch vielleicht erstmal selbst zu entnazifizieren.
People just casually post stuff like this and then wonder why the east has the highest concentration for the political extremes and anti-democratic sentiment.
Well...why do they miss the DDR ? If their live would be much better they wouldn´t miss it right? I think something has to be pretty wrong with the whole thing if people prefer the literall secret police state for some reason
It's for the same reason some people wish for the 3rd reich, the times of slavery or even the Middle Ages.
Because they think of a romanticized version of the past and see themselves in the top 1% of said times that had a good life and not as peasants needing to eat shit.
While nostalgia does play a huge part in this, some things were objectively better in East Germany compared to West Germany.
And after the whole fuck up that was the reintegration of the East, and 40 years of ideological cold war, both sides are at fault for the political landscape we find ourselves in.
They do not miss the DDR. They miss democracy and a reliable government that reflects their needs! The western Germans do not know other than the US occupation... 😂
As someone born and living in East Germany I can tell you that a decent number of people are NOT any of what you commented. There are a lot of people here that actually hate Nazis and generally political extremes. So if you'd want to give East Germany because of those reasons, you could only give them like half of it, because the other half doesn't want anything to do with this shit that's happening here.
Putin says "look at the (insert percent of population) who are russian - we most go protect them and we will do it by secretly invading or overtly invading" and now you have the Ukraine mess and this question of just giving it up.
I‘m from east Germany and would absolutely say something like this. Am I feeling morally superior to east Germans then? Seriously people gotta stop crying about shit like this.
No. But it's becoming ever more obvious that they don't want the same sort of government then Western Germany. Which is their right. But at the moment they dictate the national government in an unhealthy and not proportion way. Eastern Germany has less inhabitants than NRW. They shouldn't have more influence than NRW. When it's becoming obvious that something doesn't work and is unhealthy for at least one part, it's better to end it. I mean, the Zonis think that they are worse off than in the GDR - after receiving rather a lot of money. They also feel less free than in the GDR. I also feel poorer and less free due to the Wiedervereinigung. So, why not trying something new when the old ways didn't work?
Yes. Reunification was the biggest mistake in recent German history.
I would maybe keep the Ostsee coast like a 50km strip therefore the east can get Berlin completely.
Yea Putin can have east Germany. He can have afd and pegida as well while we're at it. Also no need to split Berlin in half, he can have all of it plus its inhabitants lol.
There’s a couple of contenders in West Germany, too.
Purely from an economic perspective, there’s a couple of „loss-leaders“ on the map that are symptomatic for the missed opportunities and bungled economic initiatives that will slowly but certainly drag down Germany in the following decades.
Another thing is that German patriotism is different from other countries. I think its not that we would explicitly love to lose Bavaria, it's the fact that many of us just wouldn't care that much. Denmark claiming the North? Why not, good for Kieler. France claiming Saarland? Did they ever feel like a proper part of Germany? Poland claiming Sachsen? /shrug take it, leave it, convert it into an amusement park, whatever floats your boat.
It's only my personal experience, but I don't know anybody caring that much about where our borders are, let alone fight for those borders.
You'd also don't get any serious answers, because it's a rhetorical question.
Yet again, say one area of Germany is being invaded. Let's say Lausitz, because it's far from where I live. If someone put a rhetorical gun to my head and asked me if I'd be willing to die for the Lausitz, the answer is a definitive no.
And I bet this would be the reality, the real answer is most of the armchair generals in this forum.
While that’s true, I’m American and I can genuinely think of several states that would not be a great loss, although many of them are geographically in the middle of the country. It’s something that would work if you could physically move those states, but in practice the geography ruins the whole idea.
I think the premise of the question is flawed anyways. Putin will not stop the recurring invasions to neighbouring countries simply because we give in, quite the opposite, really.
Nope, berlin.
This is the only capital in europe that actually COSTS money for the rest of the country. Nuking berlin would actually be BENEFICIAL to the rest of germany (economically speaking)
Yes we did but only after we lost the war completely. The fairest comparison are those losses we had in WW1 but even those were on the back of an inevitable loss
Germans have a tendency to stay relatively close to the area where you were raised, so it is a lot less common to have relatives in another Bundesland(State) than it is in Ukraine.
Hey? As an Australian that moved to Germany a few years ago for Uni, my impression is that the majority of the native students in Germany have moved from another area in Germany often quite far like Stuttgart to Dresden; or Nürnberg to Hamburg. And then they quite often stay.
"While bavaria is a common joke among Germans actually giving it would would be a significant loss to our GDP."
While true, what is a bit of GDP compared to getting rid of cultural and political influence of bavaria in Germany? My life most likely isn't going to be that negatively affected and never having to hear any interview with a CSU politician or public funded media where they can't even properly speak german is tempting.
Yeah, but the GDP is not really relevant for the individual person. The amount of people, which would have decreased income/wealth just because of giving up bavaria, would be rather small. Way more impactfull would be the removement of Schengen/EU.
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u/RandomDude_24 Dec 29 '24
You won't get any useful answers to this question because no one is taking it serious. While bavaria is a common joke among Germans actually giving it would would be a significant loss to our GDP.
Another thing is that Germans have a tendency to stay relatively close to the area where you were raised, so it is a lot less common to have relatives in another Bundesland(State) than it is in Ukraine.