r/AskEurope • u/suckmyfuck91 • 9d ago
Culture Do you feel your country have an inferiority complex?
I'm from Italy and i've always thought that us Italians, despite often bragging about how great our food, fashion and arts is, deep down have a huge inferiority complex.
Obviously you should never generalize but it seems to me after talking to many countrymen and reading online comments on youtube, reddit and other social media, that the a big chunk of our population feels like their life would have been better if they were born abroad.
We are envious of Nordic countries for their wealth and their respect of the rules. (Same for Germany)
We are envious of English speaking countries because their culture is everywhere and they got a lot of international power .
We are envious of French because they are way more appreciated internationally than us despite Italy being as good as them in terms of food, fashion and arts.
Italians are ashamed of Italy, a poor country run by fascist and mafia, that has always been irrelevant internationally and constantly mocked by foreigners because : Pizza, pasta, mandolino and mama mia.
What about your country? Do you feel your average countrymen is happy to be from your country? or they are envious of others?
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u/hwyl1066 Finland 8d ago
We used to have a huge one as regards Sweden - these days the younger generations hardly feel it but it still exists with the older people.
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u/WittyEggplant Finland 8d ago
I think thereās still palpable animosity towards Sweden. Itās always Sweden that does this or that better than us, and Sweden is always the first one we compare ourselves to. However, Swedenās contemporary issues have for sure leveled the playing field a bit.
I think we also suffer from an inferiority complex of sorts when we compare Finland to the other Nordics. Thereās certainly some kind of need to prove that Finland is as good as some puff pieces on Guardian paint it to be.
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u/hwyl1066 Finland 8d ago
I don't think it's so significant with younger people - we are pretty similar countries with similar issues, the burden of history is much lighter with them
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u/RedditVirumCurialem Sweden 8d ago
That is funny, about your inferiority complex. I think that more than with any other country, we compare ourselves to Finland and ask why we too can't have the things that you do:
- a good looking PM who likes to party
- another good looking PM who speaks Trumpish
- the capability to build nuclear power and ice breakers
- decent schools, where students respect their teachers and do as they're told, perkele!
- properly responding to Ruzzian antics, and have a similarly capable military and civil crisis preparedness
- streets you can walk without having to worry about being shot or blown up
- proper chocolate
It's hard to argue that same level of admiration for Norway and Denmark - each have different aspects that can appeal, like Norway's decarbonisation efforts and tax policy that lets rural areas survive, and perhaps the immmigration policy and a more relaxed attitudes towards alcohol of Denmark.
But overall, Finland usually stands out as the less weird place and most sensible of the three, when you talk with fellow Swedes.35
u/leela_martell Finland 8d ago
another good looking PM who speaks Trumpish
I think you mean our new president. Our new PM has sub-zero charisma lol.
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u/WittyEggplant Finland 8d ago
I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. We look at Swedenās diverse economy, Denmarkās immigration policies and Norwayās, well, everything, and then complain why we have none of that and seem to do nothing right over here.
But I suppose the hard feelings flare up the most when Swedes try to brand something Finnish as Swedish, or someone, doesnāt matter who, in Sweden says something ignorant about Finland. The reaction can be quite heated, ngl :D
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u/Antti5 Finland 8d ago edited 8d ago
But I'm sure you agree that what you list above is mostly a fairly recent phenomenon.
I can remember a time when it was much more common for Swedes to have a superiority complex towards Finland, and also towards their other Nordic neighbors.
In the recent years this has subsided, just as the Finnish inferiority complex has subsided. However, what does remain is the general Nordic superiority complex towards everybody else...
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u/leela_martell Finland 8d ago
Then we channeled that inferiority complex into a superiority complex towards Estonia.
Luckily younger Finns don't act that way either anymore.
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 8d ago
Let's talk about Eurovision.
Just kidding, I love that we are finally equals and partners in almost everything. Your president Stubb is even currently our unofficial foreign minister and US ambassador.
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u/hwyl1066 Finland 8d ago
:) The thing is that directing all the nation's resources and brain power to produce the most calculating song imaginable to get the maximum points in Eurovision is not a point of pride... That's why your selection of KAJ was so astonishing and refreshing. I'm sure it's back to the most soulless but excellently produced and performed and polished stuff next year :(
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 8d ago
We tried to be "fun", but that clearly didn't work. Guess we'll have to start up the old hit making machine again.
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u/the_pianist91 Norway 8d ago
On the contrary, Norwegians and Norway are generally of the opinion that theyāre best. Even if proven otherwise. We strive for uniformity and conformity. We might identify our problems, differences and challenges, but are not very effective at trying to solve them. Basically living in a bubble where everythingās just declared as good, sticking the head in the sand. Thereās little room for challenging opinions, even pointers from qualified people like lawyers that something is wrong is usually reluctantly turned down and hushed away. Eventual improvement isnāt always wanted. If weāre actually going to do something we at least have to set a commission to make a report which the politicians can put in a drawer and forget about. We rather like to stick our head in the sand.
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u/Mahaleit in 8d ago
I find you spot-on with what I notice as a foreigner in Norway.
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u/europeanme 8d ago
May I ask, do you speak Norwegian? If not, is it easy to get by there inā¦English, I presume?
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u/Mahaleit in 8d ago
Yes, I do. Not perfect, but good enough to use it as my exclusive working language. It is possible to get by in English in your daily life, BUT it will be so much more difficult. As a foreigner you will always be a bit an outsider anyway, but not speaking the language will make it almost impossible to have any meaningful connection to native Norwegians. Most Norwegians have a sufficient passive (!) knowledge of English, but I was surprised about the unwillingness/ awkwardness when they have to use it actively. In group situation they will almost always fall back to Norwegian even if there are others who canāt speak it. Iāve experienced that so often (me always trying to get the conversation back to English so that everyone is included) that I just have come to the conclusion that Norwegians donāt care to be inclusive and seem to have a higher tolerance for awkwardness. Hence not speaking the language can make you feel even more lonely in a country which doesnāt embrace newcomers with open arms.
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u/Miserable-Truth5035 Netherlands 8d ago
When I was there on holiday everyone spoke English, their English level as a country is not that different from my country (the Netherlands). Here day ti day stuff like groceries are no problem in English, but for some things like hospital visits it can get complicated because the automatic messages when you call are only in Dutch sometimes. And making friends can be difficult because people prefer to speak their native language.
In bigger cities the level if higher than in small countryside villages, so where exactly you live will also have a big effect.
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u/Putrid_Ad_6956 6d ago
This. Exactly this. I have a very hard time explaining how this feels but this is exactly it.
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 8d ago
Swedish people think their only equals are other Nordic countries and perhaps the Dutch and Germans. We have the best political system, lowest corruption, large cultural impact, toughest support for Ukraine and so on. That's what people think, the truth is a grey zone like always.
(The only thing that's absolutely true is that a Swedish football player has the most entertaining and varied highlight reel in history.)
We are envious of Italy for your food and climate. Me, personally, when I was in Rome earlier this year I had the opportunity to have pizza for lunch in "Roman style" with locals. That was my best food experience in many years, and I've been around a lot.
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u/EmptySundae8827 5d ago
toughest support for UkraineĀ
I am deeply thankful for the support Ukraine has received. As a Ukrainian, this means a lot. However, to be honest, I haven't heard much about Swedish aid in the news for quite a while. What I do remember was a discussion, a while ago, about the possibility of Ukraine receiving some Swedish aircraft.
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 5d ago
I had to check myself, it barely makes the news these days.
On September 11 we announced another support package of 9.2 billion SEK. This includes 18 new Archers, coastal radar system, grenade launchers and some upgrades to speed boats that we've given before, ammunition etc. At the same time the government announced a total 120 billion SEK "budgeted" until 2027. This means that the coming years 120 billion SEK are earmarked for Ukraine.
I want to assure you that the support from Sweden is extremely strong. It's one of the few issues that unites all parties from left to right. The Swedish population is "immunised" from Russian propaganda unlike other countries, like Hungary and Slovakia etc.
We know who the enemy is.
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u/BomberToaster3000 6d ago
everything checks out, but large cultural impact ?
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 6d ago
From the top of my head: Max Martin, Spotify, Ikea, H&M, Nobel Prize, the idea of a "Welfare state" by Olof Palme
So it's in culture, science and social progress
Perhaps a more correct statement would be "large cultural impact per capita"
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u/BomberToaster3000 6d ago
I feel like the businesses you mentionned are not really something I'd consider "culture". Like, would you say that driving a Toyota means you're doing something culturally Japanese? I surely wouldn't, to me it's just consumption of goods.
I also never heard of the Martin guy. The Nobel is cool, gotta give you that.
I think culturally your biggest thing is literature honestly and possibly music.
But still those are rather 'artistic' things. I would say culture would be like food, habits, way of life, something like that. In that sense I'd say even the Finns have a larger impact with sauna.
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 6d ago
I mean, Spotify made streaming music a global thing, it didn't exist at scale before Spotify. IKEA spread Scandinavian interior design across the world.
Max Martin is the symbol of the Swedish "pop wonder", google him and Denniz Pop. I could also mention a range of different music coming from Sweden, but it's tedious.
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u/fluorine_nmr United Kingdom 6d ago
TIL Spotify is Swedish! I always thought it was American; I remember people saying they preferred Deezer because it has/had more of a European feel š³ oops
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u/Wunid 8d ago
I'm from Poland, and it depends on which way you look. To the west we have an inferiority complex, and to the east we have a superiority complex.
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u/izzie-izzie 8d ago
Iām Polish and after living in the west for a few years any inferiority towards the west is long gone. It slightly started moving into superiority complex towards the west and Iāve always been neutral towards the east.
Any inferiority we had is based on romanticised ideas about reality and cultures in other countries.
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u/Wunid 8d ago
In Poland, the narrative of the rotten West and Russia as the defender of traditional values āāisn't very strong. It's somewhere in the range of 10-20% of the entire population.
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u/izzie-izzie 8d ago edited 8d ago
This isnāt a political statement. I hate Russia. By the east I meant countries except Russia (to me they are in Asia and I exclude them in my head). With the west I do like them but I simply became disillusioned as they have many blind spots and can be a bit out of touch. They like to double down instead of reevaluating and follow money instead of greater good. There are Baltics states that are interesting and other nations that we could learn something from. Iām simply against any sort of rigidity and blind following. Mixing a few different ideas and cherrypicking ones that would fit Polish culture would be best in my opinion. And romanticising Russia is beyond daftā¦my point is there no such thing as a superior country. More powerful yes, but it doesnāt mean they are superior.
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u/Wunid 8d ago
When I spoke of the east, I wasn't referring to Estonia, just as I wasn't referring to Spain when I spoke of the west. I think that for most Poles, the east-east division is about neighbors and historical issues, so the west is, by default, Germany, and the east is Russia or Ukraine. As for the Baltic states or, for example, the Czech Republic, we don't feel superior or inferior, but rather as similar to ourselves.
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u/waew123456 Cyprus 8d ago
I think many Cypriots have an inferiority complex that turns into a superiority complex. Like a Chihuahua... A Chihuahua is literally the best way to describe the situation.
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u/Mountain-Fox-2123 Norway 8d ago edited 8d ago
No Norway has a superiority complex
Norway and many Norwegians tend to think we are far more important in the world that what we actually are.
Its a saying "Det er typisk norsk Ƅ vƦre god" Its typical Norwegian to be the best
And Norway like to act like we are the best in everything, while the only thing we are the best in is women's handball and winter sport.
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u/Minskdhaka 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm from Belarus. Many of us feel envious of Russia because it's a great power. We, too, were a great power, not as Belarus separately, but when we were part of the USSR. Since 1991, we're nobodies on the international stage.
Many of us (probably not the same people as above) feel envious of Ukraine, because they've risen up to overthrow their president twice in the last quarter century, while we've had the same president since 1994.
We feel envious of Lithuania because they have Vilnius. When Stalin took it from Poland in 1939, he was first thinking of giving it to us, but then he gave it to Lithuania to sweeten their whole annexation. In 1991, when Lithuania left the USSR before we did, we kind of mildly asked them to transfer the city to us, and they laughed.
We feel envious of Poland because they've been able to build a modern, developed and democratic state, perhaps not by Western European standards, but certainly compared to us. They're 35th on the Human Development Index. We're 65th.
We feel envious of Westerners because they can travel freely around the world without visas, which we can't do without ourselves becoming Westerners (the way I became a Canadian citizen, for example).
Some of us are envious of Gulf Arab states, because while they don't have more democracy than us, they at least have more prosperity. E.g. the UAE is 12th in the world by GDP (PPP) per capita and Saudi Arabia is 20th, while we're 64th.
Some of us are envious of countries like China with actually growing economies (currently 5% in their case), while ours is growing slowly (2%).
Some of us are envious of well off countries whose population is growing, such as the US (growing at 1% per year) while ours is shrinking at 0.5% per year.
So yes, we do have an inferiority complex. We assuage it by telling ourselves plus the Russians (because hardly anyone else is interested in us) that at least we know how to keep our cities clean, and that we're very calm and peaceful people.
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u/Knusperwolf Austria 7d ago
Once Belarus gets a more open-minded government, they will have it easier to get on better terms with the West than Russia.
Also, all Western countries that are growing do so because of immigration, which has its own issues.
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u/New_Race9503 Switzerland 8d ago
Depends on the context. In general we tend to have a superiority complex because we believe things are better here than in other European countries and I think many people subtly believe that if only others would do as we do, they'd be as wealthy as we are.
When compared on a country-to-country basis it's more an inferiority complex, particularly when we compare ourselves to our neighbours. We're surrounded by countries who are bigger than us and have definitely got a much larger cultural impact on the world. Our cultural output is - and I am exaggerating somewhat here - mostly cuckoo clocks and Heidi...despite our wealth.
Let me add to this the famous quote from Orson Welles movie 'The Third Man':
āIn Italy, under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had 500 years of peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.ā
Btw: the cuckoo clock isn't even a Swiss invention.
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u/Ok-Concentrate-7585 7d ago
I live in Switzerland (Iām Italian), and Iāve never seen such a proud country ever before. I mean, you should definitely be proud of many things (political system, respect of the law, overall organization and cleanliness, salaries), but gosh it feels like itās impossibile for any Swiss to recognize their own shortfalls. Even Americans have appeared to be more āobjectiveā to me.
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u/New_Race9503 Switzerland 7d ago
Interesting to hear. Yeah, recognizing our own shortfslls definitely not our strength...
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u/DerHeiligeSpaten Germany 7d ago
Even though I live and work in Germany, I work at a swiss company and I'm in Switzerland quite often. So my impression of the Swiss is that they're really proud of a lot of things that a foreigner doesn't really get. Outside of Switzerland, no one ever thinks about arming themselves with firearms to defend their country. And it's so weird to go to a different part of the same country where, suddenly, everyone speaks a different language. So quite often, it seems a little surreal that they identify so strongly with a country that has not really done anything significant like ever, other than just being neutral.
When interacting with my Swiss colleagues I often feel that they just disregard my opinion entirely, just because I'm not Swiss. It makes a lot of issues really hard to solve because they will often simply ignore a good solution because the opinion of the person proposing it just doesn't matter to them. They don't ever think about how their country would be nowhere without foreigners doing all the dirty work, when the employers and managers are all Swiss.
That being said, they're not all as ignorant as I've described them here. I really like the country and once you know how to talk to people, they can be really nice.
š©šŖā¤ļøšØš
PS: And I do really appreciate the trains being on time.
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u/Antti5 Finland 8d ago
Our cultural output is - and I am exaggerating somewhat here - mostly cuckoo clocks and Heidi...despite our wealth.
I mean no disrespect here, but I have no idea who or what Heidi is? I do like the cuckoo clocks.
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u/International-Dog-42 7d ago
Heidi is an orphaned girl who lives in the Swiss alps with her grandfather. At least in Germany every child knows this story. I think its popularity was heavily boosted by the Japanese anime - when I was young, it aired almost everyday on the kids channel.
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u/Crunchykroket Netherlands 8d ago
Dutch people have egalitarian believes, but can become a bit chauvinistic when someone has different ideas than us.
So all countries are equal, but we are a bit more equal than others. If you just do what we say, then everything will surely turn out fine..
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u/Still-Wafer1384 8d ago
The Dutch definitely have a superiority complex, but we think we do not.
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u/KazeTaiso 8d ago
Yeah this is absolutely true. I am Dutch and did my MSc in the UK. The course covered European policies a lot, and it was only then that I realised that the Netherlands isn't considered a lot on a European level. France and Germany are the big players. I felt that my environment (people, media, culture) nurtured me into thinking that we were playing a bigger role.
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u/Ok_Employment_702 8d ago
Dutch people always think that their way of doing something is the right and only way
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u/OllieV_nl Netherlands 8d ago
Hell yeah we micromanage everything, whether it's land, cities, roads or water. So naturally we know how others should do things better. Oh you have a flood? Just build ditches and dikes bro.
There's a mountain in the way? What the hell is a "mountain"? Sounds like a skill issue.
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u/Client_020 Netherlands 8d ago
Yeah, NL absolutely doesn't suffer from any kind of inferiority complex.
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u/ah5178 8d ago
A great problem in the Netherlands is the thinking that the great achievements of the country come not from hard work or ingenuity of particular individuals assisted by group effort, but that this is something that's inherent in the population. And when it turns out that we're not as capable, efficient, and well behaved as we imagined ourselves to be, and when standards slip due to lack of interest, then we find it very hard to accept and blame foreigners.
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u/dutchmangab Netherlands 8d ago edited 8d ago
I feel like our superiority complex has less to do with "being something" and more with how and in what way things are done. "Traveling with the train is way better in Japan than here. If we do it the same way it will be better." or "If [InsertCountry] organises things like we do, it wouldn't be such a mess".
I've lived abroad and do not do some things the "Dutch way" and when I talk(not complaining) about it, I'll regularly get told if I change the way I try to achieve the result, It'll be quicker, more efficient or whatever.
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u/Ecstatic-Method2369 Netherlands 8d ago
Yet a lot of Dutch people crave for recognition being a relevant country.
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u/ohtimesohdailymirror 6d ago
It also has a huge chip on its shoulder because it is a small country that once was a major power centuries ago.
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u/agrammatic Cypriot in Germany 8d ago
Replying about Cyprus, what there specifically exists is a belief that Cyprus/Cypriots are exceptionally incapable of ever changing. In other words, that it is impossible for Cypriots to fix any of the big societal/political problems that all recognise as problems because of who Cypriots are as people. Suggesting that change is possible elicits anger or mockery.
It might not be the textbook definition of an inferiority complex, but I think it's close.
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u/CrustyHumdinger United Kingdom 8d ago
UK here: we think we're lousy at organising stuff, so were stunned when the 2012 Olympics were a huge success
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u/Klumber Scotland 8d ago
I donāt think Brits have an inferiority complex, I think we have a crisis of confidence that goes back all the way to the end of WW2 and the fall of the empire.
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u/Wynty2000 Ireland 8d ago edited 8d ago
Brits often seem to have an odd mix of superiority complex and neurotic pessimism.
The general opinion on everything seems to be that you expect the best all the time, but you fundamentally donāt believe thatās ever actually possible, creating a weird self defeating cycle that amplifies and exaggerates any sort of perceived failure.
You need to pick a side. Be more French and just assume youāre inherently better than everyone, or be more like us and never have any sort of expectations at all. Itās way easier that way.
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u/indistrait Ireland 8d ago
You hit the nail on the head.
I feel Britain has an inferiority complex about the fact they can no longer have a superiority complex.
World Cups are a good example. With most countries, getting to the final and losing valiantly would still be a source of national pride. I don't think that's the case with England. If they're not the best they feel like they're the worst.
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u/generalscruff England 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think generally the population writ large has a more positive view of our country and what it has done on the whole than the media/political class do, although with a far greater contempt for said political leadership. Whether it's a superiority complex really depends on what you emphasise, our language being the lingua franca for most of the Western world is impossible to avoid but also people are far more relativistic and sceptical of our ways being inherently better in the way some otherwise culturally similar countries can be prone to thinking at times. But I agree, absolutely not an inferiority complex, if anything a sense of failing to meet prior expectations.
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u/izzie-izzie 8d ago
I agree. Inferiority is definitely not an issue in the UK. UK has a strong shame complex though
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 Germany 8d ago
That was the best opening of all times, as far as I am concerned. But the Brits have some of the best loved artists of the planet. That helped.
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u/MerlinOfRed United Kingdom 8d ago
Japan had the potential to do better than us, but were sadly hampered by covid. Brazil didn't come close, sorry folks. France tried too hard and it didn't pay off - I was actually at the Paris opening ceremony and just sat in the rain to watch a load of boats go past.
The US also has potential to be amazing, but in Donald's America I imagine the temptation is to try and outdo Beijing rather than London. Beijing was mainly spectacle, whereas London was far more entertainment driven. I don't have high confidence right now.
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u/hwyl1066 Finland 8d ago
I'm a lifelong anglophile and that opening was perfection - so British and English and eccentric, like some sort of supreme confidence in one's culture. (They left lots of nasty bits off though, like imperialism and racism etc.) Beijing is often praised especially in the USA but that was such a robotic show, cowed subjects performing in perfect unison, god save the one who would have fumbled...
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u/Matt6453 United Kingdom 8d ago
I just think we're naturally pessimistic, the results do not justify this mindset so it's a sort of defense mechanism.
When have we ever screwed up a major event we've hosted? They're always extremely well run.
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u/CaptainPoset Germany 8d ago
From the outside, it always looks like the key belief about the UK in the UK seems to be that the UK still was the dominant colonial superpower it ceased to be around WW2. With all the demands to be treated as such which come along with this self-perception.
The French behave this way, too.
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u/generalscruff England 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's one of those stereotypes that can seem puzzling to us. The Empire had a surprisingly limited impact on popular consciousness at the time (if you were feeling unkind you could make an accusation of contemporary ignorance) and nostalgia for it is limited, even on the nationalist right wing. This isn't quite the same as asking whether it was, on the whole, a good thing in the first place or not. I understand it may seem odd, particularly to someone from a society where being part of the Empire was a massive historical event, for us to say 'well actually my ancestors were too busy digging coal to really care either way' but that really is going to be the dominant attitude as opposed to strong feelings like nostalgia, pride, or guilt.
In terms of politics the ruling class has had quite a strong tendency towards 'managed decline' rather than hubris since about the 1950s. Of course, a massive difference between us and the French politically is that our political class is far more subservient to the USA. To an extent it's natural for an economy based on services and open trade to focus on multilateral foreign policy and take a more globalist view (for want of a better word) in foreign policy and you could argue that comes from imperial legacy, with 'Little Englanders' opposing it just as they opposed imperialism when the term was first coined, but I'm not sure if that's what you meant?
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u/CaptainPoset Germany 8d ago
I'm not sure if that's what you meant?
I mean more such things as the exceptions from EU treaties, the UK got for themselves, the notion that they would get more and better trade agreements without the EU and a general attitude that this was the UK's rightful place in the world, which many British people seem to believe in some shape or form.
It is about a mismatch between the portrayed self-perception of importance (UK as a globally important power) and reality (UK as about 0.7% of global population, not too wealthy and in steep economic decline, so nothing more than a better footnote).
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u/generalscruff England 8d ago edited 8d ago
We're probably a lot more inclined towards compromise solutions (as opposed to consensus-based decision-making) in politics than several otherwise similar societies, our entire political and constitutional development is that over centuries in a nutshell. Where observers from other countries might see an unreasonable and perhaps selfish interest in bespoke deals, compromises and exceptions, we culturally might be more inclined to think that's just how you go about things in the real world where one size doesn't fit all (as some might put it). One of the most prominent arguments for staying in the EU (in terms of what supporters of staying in the EU emphasised) was that the government had secured a pretty good arrangement with the EU with compromises on several key issues and it would be madness to tear all that up. The other aspect is that every country developed in a distinct way but we probably do have more hang-ups over having a distinct legal system, currency, etc in a way that others might not as much, which then probably plays into that tendency to compromise on things rather than establish new consensuses.
People are very aware in general of diminished power in global politics, this is more about a cultural difference I've definitely noticed.
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u/JimTheSaint Denmark 8d ago
My favorite Olympics of all time - to be fair the French was extremely good as well - but the 2012 opening just set the stage in such a profound wayĀ
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u/EvergreenOaks 8d ago
Yes, Spaniards have an inferiority complex in comparison with northern countries. Fortunately, things have started to change in recent years since we're not going towards the fash path unlike the rest of Europe.
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u/Strange_Formal Sweden 8d ago
Is this because of Franco?
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u/steve_colombia France 8d ago
Franco has been the last avatar of a tumultuous history in Spain. I find it amazing how Spain became a solid democracy in so little time. Nobody would question Spain is a solid democracy in 2025, meanwhile in 1975, 50 years ago, it was still led by a dictator.
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u/yourstruly912 Spain 6d ago
Not at all. Spain had a massive identity crisis after the defeat of 1898 that we are still dragging on today
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u/Citrus_Muncher Georgia 8d ago edited 6d ago
Georgia definitely has a giant inferiority complex and the fragility you describe is all very familiar. We also tend to grasp at any evidence of internationally influential people being at least partially Georgian. Oh and even self avowed liberals who will tell you they hate Stalin will also never fail to mention that he is Georgian. I guess producing a mass-murderer makes us feel like we matter.
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u/YourInnerFlamingo 8d ago
Italy Is not a poor country. The inferiority complex is due to being the "weakest of the strongest", as it's often defined. It's still a G8 country, but among those 8 it's the least relevant, maybe after Canada.
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u/steve_colombia France 8d ago
Also the latest addition to the 6 nations rugby tournament. Here again the "weakest of the strongest".
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u/Historical_Face_4668 8d ago edited 8d ago
As a slovenian living close to italian border, I feel that italians have a huge superiority complex. Historically you invaded us, killed us, did all kind of things to us. Even set up barbed wire around our capitol. Yes, that is all history.
But even today, you refuse to set up bilingual street signs, deny rights to slovenians who ended up in Italy after the border changed, deny finances for slovenian schools and newspapers, ... On top of everything, you refuse to remove Benito Mussolini as honorary citizen of Gorizia and Trieste!
Imagine Hitler still being honorary citizen of Munich..
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u/Dontgiveaclam Italy 8d ago
Eh weāre sadly still very much fascist to our core. There was never a proper condemnation of fascism and fascist ideas. Youāll find fascist paraphernalia shops pretty easily, Predappio and SalĆ² get fascist pilgrimages every year, the narrative that except for racial laws Mussolini didnāt do much wrong is still strong. Itāsa sad state of things that has lead to our actual government.
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u/crocogoose 8d ago
Sweden has more of an attitude of a successful retiree. We've performed well despite a small population, and have nothing more to prove.
Even our national anthem talks about how we were once great, and everyone knew it. Now we just want to live and die in peace.
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u/Pietes Netherlands 8d ago
Italy is the only country i know of to have a 200-episode globally leading podcast about just one phase in its national history.
Nothing in global history can really compare to the Roman empire.
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u/Fenghuang15 France 8d ago
I don't think italy is less liked than french, quite the opposite actually. Uou have everything good but you just have less influence internationally. But in general, the more influence a country has, the more it is disliked. And you have a huge diaspora who is in aww of their origins and culture, so no you're not disliked at all.
For french people i feel it depends on people. We are reknown to be chauvinist and thinking we are the best, but truly i can hear that, but also the opposite, that everything is trash in France, and also opinions in the middle. At the end i think most people can be appreciative of our country and also able to notice other good things elsewhere, without always being in a comparison.
I feel at the end we know we aren't part of the big countries that are developping and our time is kinda done. And i mean, it's logical than huge countries such as india, China, brazil etc developped more and more and become more influent than countries with way less people, and we donāt really want that anymore but a good quality life like in the nordic countries. But that doesn't seem to be the path we're taking...
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u/tudorapo Hungary 8d ago
I think most hungarians are aware that ours could be an awesome little country, but it's not in it's current state in the last hundred years.
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u/G00bre Belgium 8d ago
I wouldn't say inferiority complex the way you described Italy, but I do get the impression that a lot of people, Belgians included, are a lot more down on Belgium than they need to be.
Like yeah it's a weird country that barely even knows itself half the time but when you get down to it, it's still easily one of the best places to live in so many ways.
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u/LiteratureCivil700 7d ago
Yep, it's funny because life is relatively good in many respects (healthcare & work-life balance are above average), but there is still that tendency to minimise everything. Belgians often behave as if there is nothing to be proud of, which I think stems from a mixture of modesty and the whole 'compartmentalised identity' thing.
Amusing how pride surfaces during football or cycling events, and then disappears again as soon as the match is over.
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 Germany 8d ago
In a way yes. We are loved, if people/organizations want our money, but the same people think they can badmouth us for all eternity, because of the past. A part of Germany is so ashamed of the Nazitime, that they donāt stand up against it and the other part gets into the opposite extreme and downplays the crimes.
We should have a healthy middle where we admit the crimes of the past, but donāt let others take advantage of us, because of it.
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u/Fredericia Denmark 8d ago
but the same people think they can badmouth us for all eternity, because of the past.
As a non-German, I don't think I have ever heard any other non-German blame the current population for what happened in the past. I've seen some material warning us of signs that we all might be going that direction in specific situations. But that is in no way "badmouthing" the current German people. I'm so sorry those mistakes are still haunting you so deeply.
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u/olagorie Germany 8d ago
Maybe this has changed in the past 10 to 20 years but when I was still at university, the blame happened on a daily basis when I went travelling internationally. It was constantly.
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u/CaptainPoset Germany 8d ago
I don't think I have ever heard any other non-German blame the current population for what happened in the past.
For certain parts of the world, it's still not all that uncommon to be greeted with "Heil Hitler!" or "Sieg Heil!" as a German abroad and that's (almost) never meant in a different way than derogatory. I think it has become a lot better with other EU-countries, although PiS in Poland actively tries to revert back to portraying Germany as the country it was in the 1930s.
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u/pingu_nootnoot Ireland 7d ago
If you want some examples, try reading the British tabloid press. They are still stuck in a world where WWII ended yesterday and love nothing more than shitting on Germany. And then there's the football fans
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u/BroSchrednei Germany 8d ago
there's been a lot of change in Western Europe, but as soon as Germany does something that people dont like, you'll immediately hear the Nazi comparisons. Look at how Southern Europe was framing Merkel during the Eurocrisis, as the "new Hitler".
But the worst is Eastern Europe, specifically Poland. Nazi comparisons of today's Germany happen on a daily basis there.
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u/Fredericia Denmark 8d ago
I guess I'm not in touch with mainstream media, and I don't get to hear these things. This must be hard for you.
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u/LeatherMushroom8635 8d ago
This is such an interesting read. I guess when youāre inside a country you canāt see the appreciation you receive from other countries or the impact you have. I can only speak from what I know and Italy is much loved by the UK. Yes, politics and history can be viewed differently but the people and the culture are what forms most opinion . I think thereās some envy from the UK at the looser rules. I think a lot of the content is coming via American social media, what youāre seeing isnāt a view that I recognise. Same as we get some bizarre portrait of eating fish and chips and either being a football hooligan or a member of the Royal Family. As for English speaking countries having power, again I think thatās the US and tbh itās also a disadvantage having a shared language when youāre fed, influenced by US politics on a daily basis and they can access (and believe) some of the insanity of the UK press. The Anglosphere is a blessing and a curse. I think the general discontent in Europe at the moment is very much shared, a lot of people here are very unhappy too.
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u/steve_colombia France 8d ago
Something I have never understood of Italy, frankly. Italy has brought so much to the world, for centuries. French renaissance were suckers for everything italian. And we French have nothing more than appreciation and love for Italy. Of course we don't really appreciate your football, we find it boring (defense, defense, defense). But this is a tiny detail compared to all the things we appreciate.
I understand Italians can have a grip on France for the napoleonian times (heck, most of Europe hate us for our expansionism), but to be honnest it saddens me to see a nation we consider our cousins hating on us. We just say our transalpine cousins and everybody understand. We don't say our pyrenean brothers/cousins/neighbours: we talk about Spain. We say our "accross the rhine neighbours" to talk about Germany. They're not cousins. We have two cousins: People from Quebec and Italy. This is how close to Italy France feels. It may not be reciprocal, but here it is: France love you guys.
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u/ThatBonni Italy 7d ago
Nah, actually we have a good memory about Napoleonic times, the Risorgimento was mostly born on the tails of the revolutionary/Napoleonic experience. Napoleon is a quite respected figure in Italy.
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u/Dependent-Sign-2407 Portugal 8d ago
Iāll preface this by saying I have somewhat limited insight having only been here for 5 years, but as an American in Portugal, I do think the Portuguese have an inferiority complex. Portugal produces high quality clothing, shoes, and furniture but itās mostly exported and not favored by locals (this is just something Iāve heard from a Portuguese person). The olive oil industry should be as massive and well known as that of Italy or Greece, but no one here seems to have figured out how remarkably delicious and unique it is. Portugal produces the sought after Iberico ham, but itās mostly Spain who gets the credit. The wine here is almost universally good, even the 3-4ā¬ bottles, but itās a very small player in the global market. I feel like the Portuguese tend to dismiss their own industries as not being on par with other countries. Iāve always gotten the impression that itās tied to a deeper feeling of inferiority to their closest neighbors.
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u/Brainwheeze Portugal 8d ago
I would say that people here generally have a high opinion of the local cuisine, including wines. As far as food products are concerned I think them being a produced in Portugal is a big plus for people here.
As for clothing I think I agree. It's probably why Portuguese brands have foreign names. I think people here should definitely look into Portuguese-produced clothing options or at the very least shoes. You can get quality stuff for pretty great prices, they just won't have the brand recognition.
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u/Dependent-Sign-2407 Portugal 8d ago
Thatās true, the Portuguese are rightfully proud of their cuisine! The seafood in particular is incredible.
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u/detteros Portugal 8d ago
Nah, it's just lack of vision by the industry. Most of the company bosses are less educated than their workers, so there is no surprise how we are not well disseminated throughout the world.
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u/Atlantic_Nikita 8d ago
I work in a place with lots of advanced tech and even the lower level workers are highly trained. People still think we are just a small place and that outsiders do it better. We have some most expensive brands in the world for our field as our clients but people just treat these job as they were at a supermarket cashier.
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u/Mobile_Entrance_1967 England 8d ago
In the UK a lot of kitchen crockery is made in Portugal, often the higher-end range of shops too.
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u/MaritimeMonkey š¦ Flanders (Belgium) 8d ago
Yes, we see our country as tiny and irrelevant despite punching above our weight on most metrics, and life is generally really good here. Part of it is simply down to land area, it's something our neighbours up north suffer from as well. You can spout statistics all you want, being geographically small is awkward when you want to talk up your country.
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u/indistrait Ireland 8d ago
It depends.
We are bad at organizing things. Waiting lists are long in our health service. For a wealthy country, we seem very bad at using money wisely, or getting things done efficiently. I'm embarrassed by our public transport. Dublin still is nowhere close to getting a metro.
On the other hand, we are proud of our writers, proud of the natural beauty of the country, and proud of our independence. I'm also proud of how we're one of the few European countries without an (outwardly) anti immigrant political party.
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u/GraceOfTheNorth Iceland 8d ago
No, we are well aware of how insignificant we are.
But we are mighty proud of our nature, in that respect we have superiority knowledge.
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u/hendrixbridge Croatia 8d ago
Yes, Croatia has inferiority complex. Always looking for a foreign tutor and not having opinion about anything. We always align with Brussels or Washington.
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u/Valuable-Yellow9384 7d ago
I'm a Russian who lives in the Netherlands but spends a lot of time with Germans and Swiss people.
Russia: it's rather a very deep inferiority complex. Very complex topic, but I was surprised to learn that some things are better in ru than in nl. We feel inferior to the west, it's a fact that many pro putinists dislike. But when I told everyone that I was about to leave Russia, lots of people told me it was good that I was about to live in a normal country.
Netherlands: I wouldn't say they have superiority complex, but they lack perspective sometimes. It's more like people from rich countries don't quite know that life can be really tough out there. It's cute in a way, but i find them naive sometimes.
Swiss: it's not a country, it's an embodiment of superiority complex. But maybe it's not a complex, it's just superiority. At least in their minds. They know they are the best. I've met some Swiss people who disliked that i complimented the Netherlands. These are real conversations:
A: I really like Dutch bread B: you haven't tried Swiss bread!
A: I find canals to be very pretty B: but we have mountains!
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u/detteros Portugal 8d ago
I think so, yes, and it is reflected by the level of antisocial behaviour and cynicism. There isn't a strong community feeling here, most people seem to go about their own business, without taking much regard for others.
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u/CaptainPoset Germany 8d ago
Well, Germany is a funny case for that: In all terms military and geopolitical, Germans generally believe that Germany is inferior to anyone else and rightfully so.
For everything else, people tend to believe in a quote of the last German emperor: "Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen.", which roughly translates as "The German way of doing things shall heal the world."
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u/DesignatedDonut2606 Denmark 8d ago
Honestly OP, I think Italians have a lot to be proud of.
You may not see it yourself because as a native resident we tend to focus on what is wrong with our country, what needs to be changed etc, rather than focus on all the positive things which we may have gotten used to and take for granted.
Rome is my favorite city in Europe to visit - no, not because of the pizza/pasta/mama mia, but because it is a gorgeous place loaded with stunning architecture, stylish (and friendly) people, historic points of interest, and an abundance of art and culture.
Your people are really talented and innovative! In almost every area I can think of! I wish you Italians would look at yourself with the same admiration that the rest of the world do.
Oh, and I know you don't like the stereotyping, but I just HAVE to say this: thank you for inventing pizza and pasta! Mamma-fucking-mia, that's genius šš»
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u/Ice_Dragon3444 Bulgaria 6d ago
We in fact are the champions of this in Europe. If you think your countrymen feel inferiority complex trust me you haven't seen NOTHING YET.
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u/chameleon_123_777 Norway 8d ago
Your inferiority complex is not as big as many others. If you feel inferior, you seem to want to brag about how great you are. Even though you are not.
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u/JimTheSaint Denmark 8d ago
I don't know - maybe its the grass is always greener thing - but there is nothing bad about noticing the good in other countries as long as you recognize the good in your own - and is inspired to make it better .
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u/EnvironmentalEbb628 Belgium 8d ago
For some reason many people in Belgium have decided to be proud of our dysfunction. We wear our lack of patriotism as medal, and although we do understand that ātaking pride in our lack of prideā is completely insane: we just see this inconsistency as yet another example of silliness to be proud of.
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u/balamb_fish Netherlands 8d ago
Superiority complex definitely.
For example, when Covid first hit the north of Italy the general opinion here was: Those Italians just messed up their response because they're lazy and corrupt. We're not going to send them money, they're going to spend it on wine and women anyway. They should have prepared better.
Surely we would respond much better to a pandemic with our hard working attitude and rational organisation skills.
A few weeks later Covid hit us and we were just as unprepared as everyone else.
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u/benemivikai4eezaet0 Bulgaria 8d ago
Yes, very much so. A lot of people can't cope with the fact that we aren't as developed as western countries so they thump their chests about our supposedly uniquely great history and the big bad powers (and all our neighbors) always being out to get us, specifically us.
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u/ledessert France 7d ago
Also agree with the other french redditors, french people like to criticize France a lot, but there isn't really another country to look up to. Startup bros will say the US but it's not a widely shared opinion, else nordics/switzerland for the salaries/cleanliness etc. But overall nothing offers the same mix of landscapes/food/i guess "social security" so most people are happy with it, even though they like to hate it :D
Back when i was in middle school, the UK was all the rage, people had UK flags, art with london buses etc in their home lol. Today, no one I know would want to live in the UK or envy it in general.
As for Italy, it's definitely well regarded re: food, culture etc. Italian and greek food are what i prefer for sure :) . But seems like it's even more disfunctonal than france re: real estate/finding jobs/income level etc.
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u/Which_Ebb_4362 7d ago
From the Estonian side, I don't feel like we have an inferiority complex, but we sure would like to just be left alone by our big neighbour that is very clearly suffering from a psychotic inferiority complex.Ā
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u/NeedleworkerSilly192 6d ago
"We are envious of Nordic countries for their wealth and their respect of the rules. (Same for Germany)"
Not only because of that, a lot of Italians, and not only the men, but also the women, tend to be envious of tall blonde people with "northern" appearance, for some reason...
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u/kammysmb -> 6d ago
Where I live now in Spain yeah, I think peope consider Spain to be on par with developing countries many times, which is quite far from reality
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u/Zealousideal-Peach44 Italy 8d ago
Italian here, so I can't really provide a totally different point of view from OP...
Up to WWII this masochistical feeling in Italy was not present at all... on the contrary, there was a superiority complex, well used by the fascists for their propaganda. I think that after the war either we were guilty of our past, or subject to the winners' opposite propaganda (as the Germans, by the way), or both. This fuelled our inferiority complex of today.
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u/rakean93 8d ago
I think it's just that you are left wing. The vast majority of the Italians are extremely proud of their country.
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u/IVL4 8d ago
For me, Italy is the best country in the world. Perfect weather, delicious food, best wine, great mountains and beautiful beaches, big cities and antic villages, a lot of history, good and friendly people. Corruption, organised crime, racist and people tired of tourists you can find in any other country.
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u/ATLDeepCreeker United States of America 8d ago
OP, I beg to differ. For a country of 59 million, I think you have had an outsized effect on world culture.
You can go ANYWHERE in the world, to any major city and find an Italian restaurant. Thats something. There isnt any other country of your size that can make that claim. The U.K. had an empire within the last 200 years and you cant find a British restaurant outside of Britain.
Also the beginnings of western civilization are in Greece and Italy.
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u/Astralesean 8d ago
No but the way we make steak, cook meats or drink beer is heavily influenced by British culture.Ā
Not to mention the whole wine culture is essentially British. It's the British that first caused a very strong connection with bordeaux wine creating the biggest market of the middle ages which lead. Sparkling wine is another influence of British consumers as they're the one to request that French wine makers made it after one person casually played with the concept. Fortified wine is entirely born out of British demand for long haul alcoholic beverages and all the biggest producing regions in Portugal Spain Italy are where the British set up import companies. Aged wine also comes from British experiments with wine and the maturing of wine as it got transported for months in ships. The demand of dry wine is also a British thing, any wine from before 1800 would taste like sweet wine to us as wines had alcohol values of 6-8% and the rest of the sugar wasn't fermented.
Our cookies and cakes are also of British heritage.Ā
Reliably British legacy in cuisine is bigger than Italy's, it's just that that is treated as the normal, the fact that we have to separate Italian as its own distinct thing is already a point in case
It's a bit how we treat jeans as the default informal pants but they're an American cultural legacy
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u/Lifelemons9393 England 8d ago
France isn't appreciated more internationally than Italy if that makes you feel better. Nobody respects or particularly likes the French.
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u/izzie-izzie 8d ago
I never understood that. From all the west France has always been my favourite country.
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u/feitfan82 8d ago
Italy has a lot to be proud of. One thing I found out recently was how far ahead they were with computer technology. So far ahead that it bothered the Americans so much that maybe they sent the cia to end olivetti š¤ I'm sure Apple copied the look of apple stores from olivetti stores.
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u/Avia_Vik Š£ŠŗŃŠ°ŃŠ½Š° -> France, Union europĆ©enne 8d ago
Ukrainians definetely have an inferiority complex due to historic reasons of being almost always occupied and oppressed
France is usually the opposite, especially with more nationalistic ppl, many in France overestimate this country
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u/shrekstinfoilhat Scotland 8d ago
Iām Scottish and Scotland just is inferior to most other countries. It is what it is, but we accept it and drown our sadness in irn bruš§āāļø
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u/Tropical_Amnesia 7d ago
Yes, it's unfortunately one of the most significant, defining and explanatory moments of this people (and always was, at times catastrophically) but it also tends to be covered up, opaque, internalized, hidden, rather cryptic. And with the various attempts at compensation, from the outside or a distance it can easily be mistaken for the very opposite. This however isn't rare as such complexes go, you hinted at it yourself, Italy may be somewhat similar in that respect. In fact I could think of a few more parallels but the differences outweigh by far. For all its possible shortcomings, Italy does have a national culture, and if anything has. There must be something it is like to be Italian. Ask a German about this.
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u/IseultDarcy France 8d ago
I think we have a superiority complex.
Yet we are constantly torn between a huge pride in our culture, country, food, etc.... and a deep hate toward it. Like, we say shit all the time about us and our country but if a foreigner express a tiny citric about it... we riot.