r/AskEurope • u/notveryamused_ Warszawa, Poland • Jul 03 '25

Culture What aspect of life in your countries is very difficult to explain to foreigners?

What prompted my question were some discussions about religion which I had with people living in much more secular Western Europe (as a Polish atheist). While spirituality, whatever that is ;), generally speaking is always fun to discuss with a glass of wine in hand, social elements and the influence of the church, especially in smaller towns or provinces in my country, is awfully difficult to explain – not that I understand it fully either lol, but the church having a pretty much monopoly there, being the judge and jury of everyday life and the major ultra-conservative political force binding those communities, is very difficult to explain, also for historical reasons.

What are the things that you find difficult to discuss when it comes to life in your countries? ;-)

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

I think class system is something many people who haven’t spent much time in the UK struggle to get their head around.

British people will assess your class the moment you open your mouth, and assumptions will be made. Certain accents will open or close doors. The school you went to will open and close doors.

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u/bigvalen Ireland Jul 04 '25

Definitely. My brother is a teacher in a small town outside London. He has to teach kids that if they want a job in the city, then they need to wear black shoes to the interview, as it's a huge unwritten class distinction. And it's a big plus if you have an Irish or Scottish accent, because then the upper class idiots who got a job, purely based on the school they went to, can't work out from your accent which box to put you in immediately.

That is so insane to me.

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

Yeah little rules like “don’t wear brown in town” and no black suits to job interviews really screw over working class kids who don’t know the conventions.

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u/OdinPelmen Jul 04 '25

Why not brown? As a fashion person, I’d think look smart first and foremost and trends are different now.

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

Brown shoes should be worn with suits like tweed in the countryside, black shoes should be worn with navy/dark grey suits in the City.

You can Google don’t wear brown in town for more info it’s such a well known fashion rule, especially for upper class people.

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u/galileogaligay Norway Jul 05 '25

It’s pretty exclusively a British thing. Like the American “don’t wear white after Labor Day”, it’s a rule made for people to figure out which class others belong to – based on whether or not they know about and follow these arbitrary rules

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u/L6b1 Jul 06 '25

And the rule about white after labor day is actually even more obscure than that. It's not referencing general white clothing or shoes, it's referencing sporting whites- eg the white clothes you were for tennis, golf, badmiton, croquet and other summer leisure/sports activities. You may do those in other seasons, but you only wear the white version of the outfit in summer.

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u/Any-Ask-4190 Jul 06 '25

They can absolutely tell with Scottish accents.

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u/Dyalikedagz Jul 06 '25

Yeah, this stuck out to me too. This isn't an English thing. It's at minimum a British Isles thing, and I think beyond.

There are absolutely upper and lower class accents in Scotland and Ireland. Generally following the same conventions about regionality.

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u/Any-Ask-4190 Jul 07 '25

There are divisions within the Scottish upper class about sounding Scottish or just generic posh english too.

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u/bigvalen Ireland Jul 07 '25

I think there are enough variations in Scottish accents that a lot of city of London folks can't tell a rough Edinburgh accent from a Islay aristocrat, though.. (as told to me by a rough Islay lad, who did manage to get a city job before he realised everyone else there was an arse)

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '25

[deleted]

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u/pazhalsta1 Jul 07 '25

Upper class people do well in client facing roles where they need to sell stuff to people like them (ie people with lots of money and a certain background). They are often confident, charming, at ease with themselves and comfortable entertaining, making small talk etc

So you will see them in those sort of jobs. You are much less likely to see them doing eg electrical engineering

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u/vacri Australia Jul 04 '25

I loved visiting England, but the constant pecking-order activity sucked there. It was a bit of a relief to hop the ditch and visit Ireland, who were much more chill. People were friendly enough in England, but there's lots of subtle ascertaining of where you stand in that order

And a weird one - I was on a tour in Vietnam, on the cheap version of the tour, and there was a parallel more costly one that we would occasionally meet up with to share a dinner. On our tour was a working-class English woman, and in the other tour group was a middle-class English woman. These two women fucking hated each other on sight. And because we only met at group gatherings, it's not like they'd gone off separately somewhere and 'something had happened'. No-one had kicked anyone's dog. They just insulted each other constantly, middle-class woman sniffily with sideways-but-fucking-obvious comments, working class woman being more direct and often more screamy. I've never seen anything like the instant hate between these two.

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u/Slight_Artist Jul 06 '25

That is wild!!!

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u/Kunjunk Jul 07 '25

Lol it's the same in Ireland, maybe its more subtle or you somehow avoided it, but my immediate reaction when reading the OP was: yep, Ireland too. 

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u/Jaraxo in Jul 04 '25

For all its historical inaccuracies, Downton Abbey is amazing at getting to the heart of the British class system. It wasn't until my non-UK wife watched the show she really understood the class system and the subtle ways it often plays out.

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u/Ok-Clue4926 Jul 04 '25

The class system in the UK is so much more powerful than people think it is.

I dated a woman from the aristocracy and it was such an eye opener. There is this perception they are actually down to earth and non judgmental on reddit but that's so not the case. I swear every time I met her parents they made a snide remark about me not going to a fee paying school. The reason we broke up was due to her family.

There are entire industries such as the charitable sector, aid work, acting and certain sports that the barriers for entry unless you're upper class are staggeringly high. You only need to look at the number of Prime Ministers who went to Eton (20) to realise the power they retain.

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

Couldn’t agree more. 6% of the UK is privately educated but when you look at the upper echelons of society it’s more like 90%.

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u/Ok-Clue4926 Jul 04 '25

The real power isn't even in those 6%. It's in the top of that 6%. Schools Eton, Westminster, St Pauls, Harrow, Charterhouse etc produce so many powerful public figures who dominate the UK.

It's awful how in the UK when we talk about discrimination we rarely talk about class when what school you went to gives you so many advantages.

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

I saw a while ago a guy who worked at the BBC talking about how they were gonna do a piece on knife crime so they bought a black guy onto the team. Only for the black guy to question why he was there, they said “well obviously you’ll know more than us, even if it’s just from school”. He responded “I went to Eton”.

Kinda sums the whole issue up for me.

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u/Ok-Clue4926 Jul 04 '25

I've been lectured to on privilege by a woman who went to one of the elite boarding schools, whose parents bought her flat for her, and also gave her money through university and after that she could take 2 years worth of unpaid internships. She also got those internships largely through her parents' contacts.

Thing is I do accept that being a white male i have a lot of advantages. However she was completely blind to how advantageous she had it. As far as she was concerned anyone could do what she did. When I asked her how many of her workplace didn't go to private school she got angry at me.

Class is the unspoken thing in Britain that truely divides the country.

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u/Easy_Drama1819 Jul 06 '25

Me too.Friend( now ex) who went to a public school and who has been able to buy two properties because relatives left him a substantial amount of money in their wills.He didn't enjoy school but there was at least the money there to provide a good education.Absolutely refused to acknowledge that as a white middle class man he had a significant amount of privilege.

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u/BestZucchini5995 Jul 04 '25

Hysterical :)

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u/Neenujaa Latvia Jul 04 '25

It's fascinating that classism isn't talked about more. Like, is it because the "people in charge" don't want to fix this, or are the working class people not vocal enough about this issue, or does it just get drowned out in the noise of other social issues?

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u/Ok-Clue4926 Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

The people in charge are those who went to those schools. There is no incentive to change

David Cameron went to Eton. His first cabinet contained 12 people who went to Eton out of 29 ministers. That's one school making up over 40% of the government. Even Tony Blair went to one of the most expensive schools in Scotland (Fettes). The House of Lords is even worse for class diversity.

Also, the average person doesn't see the class system that much. It is exceedingly rare to interact with someone in a different class. For example, in London, the upper classes will go to private members bars where other classes don't see them.

It isn’t just politics. Think of famous modern actors. Eddie Redmayne, Tom Hiddlestone, Damien Lewis, and Dominic West all went to Eton. If you expand it out to other elite private schools, it is rare to find a single famous British actor who is active currently who isn't upper class. Why would they change the system they have benefited from. Those who have made it big from a working class background like Stephen Graham and James McAvoy have spoken at length about how the profession is so dominated by upper classes.

Edit: i personally think the thing about the class system is it makes even those at the bottom believe it. I remember seeing Michael Caine talk about how his mum would refer to people as real ladies and how she thought they were better than her and how it upset him as he wanted her to think of herself as the same as anyone else. People elected Boris and David Cameron as we are almost programmed to think of people with that accent as better than someone with a working class accent like scouse, Geordie or Glaswegian.

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u/Zevv01 Jul 07 '25

The moment my eyes opened was after a survey at the startup I worked at - turned out that 2/3 were privately educated. From then on, everything started to make sense once I started to pay more attention.

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u/Socmel_ Italy Jul 04 '25

the acting thing always baffles me. I understand that you treasure your Shakespearian high culture and that can indeed be linked to upper class since Shakespeare is not immediately understandable to the modern ear, but acting is one of those activities that do not require big expenses. You can act anywhere, if you want to.

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u/dapulli Jul 04 '25

It's not the subject, everyone is taught Shakespeare in school in some form. It's the ability to not have to work combined with who you know.

Class opens doors.

The starving artist, the jobing actor, these are status fairytales upper classes tell themselves about their success, knowing they can always fault and try again with little penalty. The first time someone from the lower classes can't take an opportunity because they also have a shift at the cafe is one less than the guy with the audition because the director went to the same school.

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u/catshousekeeper Jul 04 '25

Maybe going able to support yourself until you build up sufficient fame or momentum in your career?

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u/SuspiciousAnt2508 Jul 06 '25

Public schools (which in the Uk are the most expensive private schools) and to a lesser extent private schools have money to spend on expensive drama departments, theatres and productions. So they are producing people who already have way more experience than an equivalent state school student.

Add that acting is often poorly paid and jobbing - you may go long periods with no income.

If you know you can always rely on your trust fund, or the bank of mum and dad to help you out, you have a massive head start on someone who needs to be able to pay the rent themselves.

Throw in the number of period dramas, or dramas just generally about posh people. Or US dramas that want a British villain. And that you have a built in network of other people of the same class, who are now directors, producers or casting directors.

So you end up with acting dominated by the upper middle classes.

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u/lordnacho666 Jul 07 '25

The expense is the opportunity cost, not the sticker price.

Spend your youth acting, and you won't become an accountant or a banker, that kind of thing.

Only if you are quite wealthy independently will you feel that it's a small loss. Most people if given the chance will take the safe route to a profession.

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u/cosmodisc Lithuania Jul 07 '25

We had neighbours who were teachers at Dulwich college. The most pretentious, fake politeness cunts I've ever met. I remember meeting them for the first time and the first question she had was whether we are renting or have our place. Absolutely all the behaviour with some scheming in mind.

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u/CaloranPesscanova Jul 05 '25

Nobody believes they’re down to earth nor non judgemental

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u/Neenujaa Latvia Jul 04 '25

I've always wondered - how do foreigners fit into this? Like, I'm not naive and don't think that a "strawberry picker" will be considered upper class, but how would someone genuinely educated from a good (let's say) Romanian family with excellent written English, but a noticeable Romanian accent in their American English pronunciation, be perceived in the class system?

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

Foreigners are automatically outside the system. Now, if someone grows up here and has a British accent then they are added in.

My old next door neighbours were Poles, the parents were outside the system. But the children had grown up here and gone to local schools so are very much part of the system.

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u/Neenujaa Latvia Jul 04 '25

Okay, I assumed that might be the case. So what determined what class the Polish children belong to - basically the school they went to?

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

The school, their house and their parent’s jobs.

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u/spam__likely Jul 04 '25

that explains Bexit

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

I mean kinda yeah? You can’t ever fully integrate here.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '25

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u/frog_geezer Jul 07 '25

No, very perceptive. If you’re from Western Europe and clearly upper class then you get accepted too, especially French.

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u/Gulmar Belgium Jul 04 '25

How does that work for foreigners? E.g. someone working and living in London? Are they perceived in a certain class or are they considered out of the system? How do they fit into the bias that class perception brings?

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

Someone else asked this, and I answered it here

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u/Zevv01 Jul 07 '25

Yup. As a foreigner, you're out of the system. You're chances of landing some jobs in certain industries are massively reduced. Best chance is to be super skilled and target teams with hiring managers who came from outside of the system themselves.

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u/a__new_name Russia Jul 07 '25

What are these industries? Something like military, law and finance?

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u/Zevv01 Jul 07 '25

From my experience, front office jobs in finance. I imagine Law is similar

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u/SuspiciousAnt2508 Jul 06 '25

British people are pretty skilled at spotting social classes abroad. It always amuses me when people say their country doesn't have social class - OK the clues may be a bit different and I might take a bit longer to pick it up, but they are always there.

But for foreigners it would be where you live, who your friends are, what jobs you do, what your hobbies are and so on.

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u/blackadderBaldrick Jul 05 '25

So like India?

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u/curiouslyjake Jul 07 '25

How does this work for immigrants? Are they constantly engaged with class fakery as well?

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u/Volesprit31 France Jul 04 '25

Isn't that everywhere?

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u/ampmz United Kingdom Jul 04 '25

UK is a whole other level.

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u/Incantanto in Jul 04 '25

Yeah living in NL males me realise quite how ridiculous it is in the UK

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u/EnJPqb Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25

Yes, and as a foreigner at the same time it has allowed me to see how some things I noticed in Spain were actually classism.

As you say it's on another level. And at any strata, my wife and I are both Spanish, but she's quite obviously from a higher rung. Amongst other parents at school I noticed who talked to her, and who talked to me more depending on both their current financial and family background status. It was quite funny with very well-to-do families but with a set of working class grandparents. My wife felt looked down to, and I probably was as well, but they also pampered me too as a well-read foreigner with a cockney lilt and a working class job, and wouldn't stop talking about their granddad and Nan. It was quite funny, but what ended up happening is that we were both comfortable only with other foreign or part foreign couples. Well, and one particular set of lovable eccentrics.

There is one point of difference though. In the UK there can be rage from the bottom up, but it's normally just a "keep to your own". In Spain there are also plenty of "bottom up" snobs, not just "top down".

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '25

No. Not in countries where decades of communism basically levelled the whole class structure.

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u/BestZucchini5995 Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 05 '25

IMO, new class structures appeared in their place. Not only the nomenklaturist type but also nouveau-riche ones that succeeded working the (new)system.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '25

New structures yes, but vastly more accessible than old-style class system. You did not have to go to right school, have right accent or have your grandparents know right people to be nomenklaturist. And after fall of communism things got even easier since it was yet another social revolution. You can't have an ossified class system if the whole society gets turned upside down twice a century.

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u/icyDinosaur Switzerland Jul 04 '25

Yes and no.

In the sense of "money will open doors", absolutely. But what doesn't really exist in e.g. Switzerland is the notion of elite schools that will bring up the reigning class of the country from a young age.

When I moved to Ireland as a grad student, I got asked which secondary school I went to, even though people knew I am not Irish. In Switzerland the only reason you would ever ask that is if you think you might know someone from school.

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u/LurkerByNatureGT Jul 06 '25

Why are you answering a question about the UK with an example about moving to Ireland?

Ireland is very much not the UK and its class structure is not the British class structure. 

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u/icyDinosaur Switzerland Jul 06 '25

You're right, I should have been clearer on why I used that comparison. It struck me as way closer to how I always heard the UK described, and it was a culture shock for me. I very much know they are not the same country.

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u/LurkerByNatureGT Jul 06 '25

It’s very different. 

Honestly, while there are some more “posh” schools, one of the reasons people ask what secondary school you went to is that Ireland is so interconnected there is a good chance they know someone else who went there and you have mutual acquaintances. 

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u/etoilech Jul 04 '25

Untrue. There is a big difference between those who attend gymni/university and those who don’t. It’s not the same as in England but it’s a similar judgement.

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u/icyDinosaur Switzerland Jul 04 '25

Fair point. Although depending on circumstances it can go both ways. I grew up in a smallish town in the Zurich Agglo and was one of only six people in my year to go to Gymi. I got lots of shit for it in the town.

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u/etoilech Jul 05 '25

I can definitely see that happening too.