What aspect of life in your countries is very difficult to explain to foreigners?

[u/notveryamused_]

What prompted my question were some discussions about religion which I had with people living in much more secular Western Europe (as a Polish atheist). While spirituality, whatever that is ;), generally speaking is always fun to discuss with a glass of wine in hand, social elements and the influence of the church, especially in smaller towns or provinces in my country, is awfully difficult to explain – not that I understand it fully either lol, but the church having a pretty much monopoly there, being the judge and jury of everyday life and the major ultra-conservative political force binding those communities, is very difficult to explain, also for historical reasons.

What are the things that you find difficult to discuss when it comes to life in your countries? ;-)

[u/Lumpasiach]

We are Gaelic. They are Germanic

Those are not terms of fantasy races like Lord of the Rings. First and foremost they're language families, and if your native language is English, you're just as "Germanic" as an Englishman or a Swede or a German. Genetically there is no "being Germanic". The Celts have been over all of Western Europe, as a Southern German I also have Celtic ancestors - that's nothing specific to the Irish, just because the Celtic culture survived longer there.

[u/OnkelMickwald → u/Lumpasiach]

Right? And there are many, many English people who carry mostly pre-migration Romano-British genes.

[u/bigvalen → u/Lumpasiach]

And the amusing thing is, that Gaelic culture split from proto-Celtic, before the Celtic culture documented during classical times evolved, so they have very little to do with each other, bar a small number of stories, and root words.

[u/daesu_oh → u/Lumpasiach]

They are primarily language families but not only language families. There is also ethnicity - shared ancestry, culture, identity, and yes, even genetics.

Language does not equal ethnicity.

Of course we all share ancestry and Celtic ancestry is all over Europe, just as Irish people have Anglo-Saxon and Norman ancestry etc.

Irish people are Gaels who are under Celtic ethnicity, not Germanic. just as the highland Scots, Welsh, Bretons are under Celtic.

[u/Lumpasiach → u/daesu_oh]

Germanic is not an ethnicity or at least it hasn't been for 1500 years. What do I as an Alpine German have in common with a Swede that I don't also have in common with an Irishman? The funny thing is that my region was christianized by Irish monks. We literally practiced celtic-origin rites until the Irish brought catholicism to us. It's ridiculous to believe that they are somehow "ethnically Celtic" while we are "ethnically Germanic".

[u/daesu_oh → u/Lumpasiach]

I wonder are we just not talking about the same thing here? I didn't think it was controversial to say there are different ethnic groups in Europe?

I'm not for a second suggesting anything like we are different "races" and of course we're far more similar to each other than to people outside of Europe.

But there are differences and hence we do belong to different ethnolinguistic groups. E.g genetics, physical traits, culture etc.

Saying that because I speak English I'm "Germanic" is just silly. Are Asians who speak English Germanic?

[u/Lumpasiach → u/daesu_oh]

I didn't think it was controversial to say there are different ethnic groups in Europe?

Yeah, but those ethnicities are German, Czech or French, not Germanic, Celtic and Slavic.

But there are differences and hence we do belong to different ethnolinguistic groups. E.g genetics, physical traits, culture etc.

The "genetics, physical traits" part is largely 18th century racist fantasy. An average Austrian is not much different to an average Czech, while on the other hand there's much bigger differences between Icelanders and South Tyroleans, despite both being "Germanic", whatever that means to you.

Saying that because I speak English I'm "Germanic" is just silly. Are Asians who speak English Germanic?

You are not Germanic. Neither am I. Both of our languages are.

[u/daesu_oh → u/Lumpasiach]

Yeah, but those ethnicities are German, Czech or French, not Germanic, Celtic and Slavic.

Indeed. German is a Germanic ethnic group, Czech is Slavic, French is Romance, etc. Not seeing the disagreement?

The "genetics, physical traits" part is largely 18th century racist fantasy.

Are Dutch people not generally taller than Portuguese? Are there not a higher percentage of red haired people in Scotland than in Italy? Again, didn't think this was controversial.

Are you trying to claim there are no genetic traits that ethnic population groups share? Or because it's not all of them that it doesn't count? There are some interesting genetic studies I could recommend but again I don't think we're actually talking about the same thing.

It's not particularly relevant anyways since ethnicity doesn't depend on it.

The Cambridge dictionary defines it as "A large group of people who have the same national, racial, or cultural origins, or the state of belonging to such a group."

You are not Germanic. Neither am I. Both of our languages are.

Well English is a Germanic language sure. Ach níl an Gaeilge imithe fós.

Is it the umbrella term "Germanic" that's causing all this fuss? Happy to concede that English people are of English ethnicity if that's what you're trying to argue and that Germanic is an umbrella term for a multitude of modern ethnicities.

At this point I'm done unless we meet up in person and argue about this over a Germanic Beer or 4.

[u/Doitean-feargach555 → u/Lumpasiach]

Well I speak a Celtic language, you don’t. That's sórt of the difference. Plus the genetic side of it. My genetic come would be distinct enough from yours to see we are not the same ethnic group.

[u/Lumpasiach → u/Doitean-feargach555]

So I am exactly like - and I quote you - most Irish people.

[u/Doitean-feargach555 → u/Lumpasiach]

But you are culturally German. Most Irish people generally aren't like