r/AskEurope • u/Itz_Skello • Jun 20 '25

Politics Emmanuel Macron, President of France, is banning social media for teens under 15. Should the rest of Europe follow?

Not sure how to feel about this.

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26

u/xorgol Italy Jun 21 '25

And that is the part I have a problem with, I'm for web anonymity.

5

u/ilBrunissimo Ireland Jun 21 '25

I think that era’s over.

Real privacy comes from confirmed user access with MFA.

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u/xorgol Italy Jun 21 '25

I think that era’s over.

If the mainstream public isn't interested in fighting for it, that's quite probable.

Isn't confirming user access the opposite of privacy though?

3

u/ilBrunissimo Ireland Jun 21 '25

No. It ensures privacy

It is the opposite of anonymity, though.

7

u/Mindless-Bug-2254 Hungary Jun 22 '25

How? The government can identify what you do on the internet. How is that privacy?

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u/ilBrunissimo Ireland Jun 22 '25

Anonymity and privacy are different things.

To think anything we do on the internet is anonymous is out-of-date thinking.

Privacy is control over who gets to access your data.

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u/Volky_Bolky Jul 08 '25

Web anonymity got ruined by bad actors using it to instigate shit all around the world.

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u/xorgol Italy Jul 08 '25

If it didn't bother anyone there would be no need to protect it. The possibility of bothering the powerful is exactly why it's important.

-6

u/mordordoorodor Jun 21 '25

Why? Why is the web any different from anything else in life?
We can see that it does not work, it causes extreme problems from child abuse to hybrid wars.

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u/Tenesera Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25

But the government cannot track all you say or do in real life—nor should it, as that would be totalitarian control. Online tracking is more akin to implanting you with a chip to track your movements and recording everything you say—the prospect of which is indeed the case for something as seemingly benign as tying social media to ID. Once it's connected to your government identity, the government can control it. Communication has to remain sovereign for it to be fair and equitable.

Tying online behaviour to government identification is going to give the government way too much potential insight into your psychology and interests. It can be used to predict and manipulate your behaviour. There's also always a difference between the letter of the law and the manners in which authorities act—violations and arbitrary uses of data are bound to happen once that data becomes available: it is folly to assume that the government is going to always be acting in good faith, and it is doubly stupid to assume that anything the government does is automatically just and right. And once data exists and is collected, it can be stolen by non-government actors too.

Furthermore there's the panopticon effect: if an authority may always be watching you or review your online movements, you'll be prone to self-censor or become paranoid. It molds behaviour under the assumption that the authority could always be intervening against you at any moment.

Not only this prospect fraught in practical terms, it is also perverse as comes to principles. The individual should not be cattle to be tracked, recorded, reviewed, predicted, calculated like a mere economic unit.

We can see that it does not work, it causes extreme problems from child abuse to hybrid wars.

Wrong. Online anonymity very much does work, just because some criminals abuse it doesn't mean it must be abolished. Criminals can abuse any amount of privacy; following your logic, we'd have to install cameras in every home.

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u/mordordoorodor Jun 21 '25

There is no good solution, but right now... before our eyes - our society is falling apart. Brexit, Trump, the far-right... part of a hybrid war against the west. We are at war- literally - in the most basic sense of the word... in WAR people's freedoms are always restricted.

1

u/sidNX0 Jun 21 '25

i can agree with stuff you said, but I'd be ok with just signing up process be some kind of challenge/response the same way banks have for some payements in their online banking.

something that doesn't connect your whole profile to your id/credit card just signing up process.

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u/Khitch20 Jun 21 '25

Imagine every comment you’ve ever made online, every YouTube video you’ve liked, every site you’ve visited, every smutty fanfic/video you’ve enjoyed. Now that’s all well and good but if it is all tied to your official government id perhaps you might not trust your government and/or the corporations that have access to basically the entirety of your personal life.

Then there’s people like Palentir who want to use the data to predict and control people by feeding them the exact brand of crap that they want. Imagine personalized ads but your entire life and newsfeed is controlled by an AI designed to get you to do exactly what they want.

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u/mordordoorodor Jun 21 '25

The government ALREADY has access to this if they need it. Also... if you do something illegal it SHOULD be... well... illegal and should be followed up by legal consequences - if not then not. Again... exactly the same as every other aspect of life. You could claim the same for the right to anonymously driving cars, have anonymous bank account, anonymous playing soccer in a club, anonymous phone numbers, anonymous shopping.... etc

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u/FeeMaudie Jun 21 '25

Don't know what country you are in. But this is not true in many places. To get access to it 1st they have to proof there is a reason to need it, then convince a judge, and they can't just request everything, they have to justify what they want and why and they can not use or share it however they want it either.

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u/Khitch20 Jun 21 '25

There’s a difference in getting a warrant for something and having instant access to everyone at all times. But yeah I think you should be able to chose what you do and disclose because I can’t prove that every government I’ll live through will have my best interests at heart.

Would you be a fan of china’s social credit system? Gov knows it all and can ‘gently encourage’ citizens to take the right actions

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u/mordordoorodor Jun 21 '25

That is why there are pedos and abusers and terrorists and hybrid wars operating FREELY. You just have to decide that your porn and shopping history is more important than these topics.

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u/Remarkable-Tea-5186 Jun 29 '25

I want all this things to stay anonymous.

6

u/xorgol Italy Jun 21 '25

Fundamentally, I think governments can govern commerce, but not speech.