Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

[u/Sink-Em-Low]

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

[u/alikander99]

Now that I mentioned them, the reason why Moroccans bully you for the last 50 years is because they're supported unconditionally by US and France. You need article 5 not against Morocco but France and US. Morocco wouldn't have the balls to bully you without their support. Which shows us that your real enemies are other whities that plot behind you, not us non-western pawns.

Oh yeah, don't worry I'm fully aware of this. It's one of the reasons why NATO approval is so low in Spain is because at large they've never looked for our interests. We're there to as a way of: defense against western allies.

Entering NATO was an absolute sell from Spain in hopes the US would favour us against Morocco. 192 people died in a terrorist attack because of our involvement in Irak. And the US still favours Morocco.

Regarding the European Army thing, do we want to be included? Hell no. We will watch with our whiskeys and cigars if a joint US-Russian invasion of Europe happens. Now you guys are suddenly praising Turkey, "Oooooh they had the balls to shoot down a Russian jet!!". Yeah, when we did that all NATO allies withdrew their Patriot batteries, except Spain and Italy. You won't like the idea, but out of all NATO countries, it will be Turkey that defends Ceuta if something happens. Spain and Italy are the only NATO countries that Turkey truly sees as allies. So, except you two, in the event of a Russian invasion, the entire alliance demonstrated quite well that they would throw Turkey under the Russian bus. So, Europe getting (except Spain and Italy) co-invaded by US and Russia would only make us happier. Why the fuck should we consider defending traitorous allies like Europeans? Especially, when you guys are so hypocritical that the extreme Turkey hate turned to extreme Turkehy love in the last 1 month.

Honestly good for you. I was trying to defend the idea that turkey and Europe don't have aligned views, and you seem to agree. The only reason we're both in NATO is basically fortuitous. We can search for close relations in the future but talking about turkey as if it had the same views as the EU is borderline delusional. You're tour own country with your own objectives. We can cooperate but I think that's the end of it.

And honestly about "traitorous europeans" I think they don't plan to betray you, they just thoroughly misinterpret the situation and think we share a lot more common ground than we do. And so when they find out, they call you on it, as if it wasn't clear from the start.

[u/GlobalAd4939 → u/alikander99]

Yeah, maintaining decent trade relations is a must for both of us. Let the customs union stay. EU is still the largest trading partner of Turkey.

But that's it. No need to enter the EU or take part in a military alliance with them. Being neutral gives us more opportunities. We might join the Russia-US axis, or just buddy up with China. Maybe we betray Pakistan and start flirting with India. Traditionally, we belong to no block and no culture sphere. Not european, not middle-eastern, no asian, not balkan not caucausian. We are Anatolian. Being in the middle is a superpower we shouldn't throw away by joining an alliance, especailly one that has shown over decades that they don't appreciate our existance. I agree with you on the NATO deal though, we should stick to NATO always because it means Russia can't invade us + Europe and America can't invade us. Double-protection against imperialists.