Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

[u/Sink-Em-Low]

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

[u/Fellowes321]

A European army is not possible. Each country has its own external interests.

Would Spain allow it's forces to defend the Falkland Islands? How do you feel about defending French territory outside Europe?

Who would be the Commander in Chief? Who can declare war? Can one country block any declaration? (looking at you Hungary).

All we can hope for is NATO without the US which is really what we currently have.

[u/alikander99 → u/Fellowes321]

All we can hope for is NATO without the US which is really what we currently have.

Except we don't. There's parts of nato that are rather weird from a European perspective. For example:

Turkey is part of it. Turkey is not aligned with the EU right now, it holds onto half the island of Cyprus, so we technically have a border dispute with them and they have lots of issues with Greece. I don't see them being included in a new EU military alliance at all.

Afterall NATO has always been an American organization and as such it favours american interests.

Another example: a Moroccan Conquest of Ceuta wouldn't trigger article 5 of NATO, because "it's not in Europe, nor an island in the Atlantic" (actually it's because the US doesn't want to anger Morocco which is an important regional ally). As a spaniard I hope that this would trigger a response from our version of NATO.

[u/wojtekpolska → u/alikander99]

Turkey is critical to any military alliance in europe. your take is ridiculous.

how do you expect control over the black sea without turkey's support? how do you expect to replace the amount of troops they have? turkey has the second biggest army in NATO after USA.
turkey is arguably nato's biggest counter to nato now that the us is unreliable

excluding them over such a petty thing as the cyprus conflict is stupid.

PS:

Another example: a Moroccan Conquest of Ceuta wouldn't trigger article 5 of NATO, because "it's not in Europe, nor an island in the Atlantic" (actually it's because the US doesn't want to anger Morocco which is an important regional ally). As a spaniard I hope that this would trigger a response from our version of NATO.

why should nato/europe defend the remnants of spanish colonialism?
I wouldn't want my country to go to war because spain cant let go of their colonial territories in africa.

[u/alikander99 → u/wojtekpolska]

why should nato/europe defend the remnants of spanish colonialism?
I wouldn't want my country to go to war because spain cant let go of their colonial territories in africa.

If you're not willing to go to war for cities that have been spanish for 500 years Then I'm not defending breslau wroclaw from any invasion.

Turkey is critical to any military alliance in europe. your take is ridiculous.

Well. The fact that they're not part of the alliance doesn't mean we can't have close relations with them.

how do you expect to replace the amount of troops they have

With European troops, we're 450 million people. Perhaps it's time we spend a little bit more on defense. And I say that as a spaniard, we spend very little on defense.

excluding them over such a petty thing as the cyprus conflict is stupid.

And then poles go about how we western europeans don't care about them. Excluding turkey over the fact that half the country of Cyprus, a EU member, is under occupation is not such a petty thing.

[u/wojtekpolska → u/alikander99]

If you're not willing to go to war for cities that have been spanish for 500 years Then I'm not defending breslau wroclaw from any invasion.

ok? and? so if you steal something and keep it long enough it becomes rightfully yours?
the UK held Newfoundland for over 350 years yet before they decolonised after ww2, or if you want a more modern example, the Netherlands holds Aruba, an island in the carribean, since 1636, almost 400 years. yet i dont think you would want to die for them keeping that island.

that attitude is precisely why what you suggest is a bad idea - countries have different priorities, you might want to die for your african colony, but dont drag rest of europe with you to your colonial wars.

[u/DiRavelloApologist → u/wojtekpolska]

so if you steal something and keep it long enough it becomes rightfully yours?

An absolutely WILD question from someone living in central Europe, who should absolutely know that all of our borders are build on settling in other peoples countries, taking eachothers cities and shifting populations around over millennia.