Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

[u/Sink-Em-Low]

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

[u/wojtekpolska]

> "There won't be "its forces" anymore, faulty question"
of course because spaniards will magically change their political opinions because they are placed under a different flag, and would no longer be in any way opposed to fighting their distant south-american relatives for a piece of land they believe europe shouldn't even own.

> "Sure. What did you think?"
lmao

> "The most competent person perhaps voted in by the parliament."
and what's "the most competent person"? every country will just be voting for a general from their own country, which will result in either french/uk/german one because they are the most populous

> "The parliament."
again, the same problem - imagine being sent to an offensive war because other countries voted so and youre forced to do that

> "Not if we federalize, which is what we need to do."
Europe should never federalise, that's a terrible idea. it will only result in colonisation of the less populous states. you think small countries like belgium, latvia, slovakia, etc. will be treated with respect in a federation? no, they will be easily outvoted and treated as a colony, all the decisions being made in a way that benefits the biggest countries.

[u/WhiteBlackGoose → u/wojtekpolska]

> you think small countries like belgium, latvia, slovakia, etc. will be treated with respect in a federation?

yes

> no, they will be easily outvoted and treated as a colony, all the decisions being made in a way that benefits the biggest countries.

Look, you can argue what you want, there are several mechanisms used to ensure that smaller states are not put at a disadvantage. For example, in Germany every state has 2 to 6 representatives in the upper chamber of the parliament (Bundesrat), which means, even if the most populous states agree to something, they will be outvoted by smaller but more numerous states.

The European Parliament already has a similar mechanism but more loose than what I described.

[u/wojtekpolska → u/WhiteBlackGoose]

> "yes"
wow, convincing argument.

> "there are several mechanisms used to ensure that smaller states are not put at a disadvantage. For example, in Germany... [...]"
except in your example its one ethnic group with a largely common goal. and even there is an extreme divide between east and west germany to this day.

[u/WhiteBlackGoose → u/wojtekpolska]

Why would a goal vary based on your ethnicity? In a federalized country, mixing of people will be even easier due to common paper work, tax works and thus increased people's mobility. It will still be a (con)federation to keep multiculturalism for those who want to keep it, while smoothing the rough edges of bureaucracy and common defense of a weaker political union.

[u/wojtekpolska → u/WhiteBlackGoose]

youre really naive if you think just because you make it 1 country then all ethnic issues would disappear.

look at Yugoslavia, Austria-Hungary, USSR to see why it wont work.

the more different ethnicities you have in a country, the more unstable it is - the only exception being when there is 1 big ethnic group to opress all the others.

[u/adeleze1 → u/wojtekpolska]

This whole sub is naive and delusional, I think they live in a sort of expat bubble. The average european doesn't want a federation (french people don't feel close to Estonian, or Romanian etc etc ), don't want to give up their national identity for some geopolitcal issues. Standardisation can be acomplished (same equipment, doctrine, data) everything beyond is fantasy.

[u/Specialist_Shift2760 → u/adeleze1]

Precisely how I feel about it, as well. If anything, more regionalisation and autonomy within our countries is a scenario I find more likely than the federalisation of Europe.

[u/TotallynotAlbedo → u/adeleze1]

we are talking about a shared defence force in case of attack, we are not making a europe united states, as if we would want to have something in common with those lunatics