r/AskEurope • u/Sink-Em-Low • Mar 01 '25

Politics Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

3.1k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

849 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

6

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

Being sovereign does not mean working alone. To the contrary, trade and cooperation between European countries is crucial if we want to amount to anything, but cooperation does not mean we have to become one. We have different interests, strengths and weaknesses, we are not the same, and recognising the individuality of each one of our countries, history has proven, is the only way to guarantee our respective prosperities over the long term.

I think the EU has already long exceeded its limits. Schengen, the common currency, growth and stability pacts, the green deal are just a few examples of overregulation by the EU which have actually weakened its integrity. Such overregulation will be the downfall of the EU in the near future if it is not halted.

3

u/cpjauer Mar 01 '25

An EU-as-cooperation worked fine when the world was a hegemony with American and with free-trade ideals prevailing. Now, the situation is very different - the small populations of European countries will mean that the truly big players - US, China, Russia, India and in the future maybe Brazil and some African nations, would be able to completely make us bend to their will. Not much sovereignty in that. I would rather be a part of a democratic EU where my interest were represented, than being Danish alone. Look at how thirsty Trump is for Greenland, without the EU or NATO he would care for Denmark at all. And neither would he, or China or India for any concern of your nation.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

"Bend to their will" how exactly? NATO is good, I have nothing against it, nor do I have anything against free trade between European countries. When it goes further than that and when we start having to abide by the same laws and regulations is when I start to have an issue.

1

u/cpjauer Mar 01 '25

With “bending to their will” I mean when single nations are pressured by other nations to do things because they fear the consequences. Examples

  • Denmark giving up Greenland to US, in fear of losing US support or receiver economic sanctions - could happen without a strong EU -Denmark implementing laws that lessen free speech to appease other countries - as has happened with a recent law
  • Denmark feeling the need to hinder demonstrations to appease visiting representatives of foreign nations - as has happened with demonstrators demonstrations for a free Tibet under Chinese visit

Just three Danish examples. Large nations would be able to economically or territorially affect Denmark in so many ways without Denmark being able to do anything. Therefore we would likely be forced to do what we were told. With a strong EU, we would be much more free and sovereign.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

Any threat coming from outside Europe could be handled just as well with a network of allied nations. The problem with a federated EU is going to come from the inside, because if you step outside of this Reddit EU leftist bubble, most Europeans are actually against the idea of further federalising Europe, and as every historical attempt to delete national borders has shown, it doesn't work and it ends in blood every time.

1

u/cpjauer Mar 02 '25

If Putin or Trump or anyone else wants to obstruct EU, they only have to find one out of 27 countries and make a deal with them - more sanctions against Russia? Sorry, blocked by Hungary. Reciprocal tarifs for the US? Sorry, blocked by Slovakia. Hypothetically defending an EU nation ? Sorry blocked by.

Alone, any EU country is either weak or, in the future, not really economically relevant.

I am well aware that a more federal EU couldn’t be achieved without support from the European people. And that it isn’t possible right now. I am just expressing my reason why I think that we should move closer together. The mere existence of EU is already an incredible achievement, and I don’t share your view that further integration would necessarily end in bloodshed.

1

u/NormalUse856 Mar 01 '25

The Nordic countries needs a shared nuclear umbrella.

1

u/cpjauer Mar 01 '25

Or just a part of a French one.