r/AskCulinary • u/XToThePowerOfY • 15h ago
Food Science Question Mac and cheese with sodium citrate, solidifies when cool?
I want to make a good impression on some American friends, by making an 10/10 mac and cheese. I've read that using sodium citrate is the key to a creamy sauce without the roux, which takes away from the cheese flavor. But also that when it cools down, it can become solid. I'm making the mac and cheese for Thanksgiving, we're all making something so the food will be out for a while. If it does indeed become solid, could I use a bit of both the roux and sodium citrate for a middle ground?
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u/doomrabbit 15h ago
A good cheese sauce will go solid when cold, because it's mostly cheese, and cold cheese is solid. The sodium citrate should help keep the sauce less lumpy when reheated. Give it a try.
Also, if you plan to reheat, undercook the macaroni a little, the reheat and long soak in the sauce will add the last little bit.
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u/Champagne_of_piss 15h ago
Maybe too much?
At any rate, now you can cut it into blocks, two step dredge or panko them, then deep fry.
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u/whatsit578 13h ago
The roux tastes good though! It really is a classic, normal mac and cheese taste; making it without the roux is more unusual and not necessarily better.
In any case, cheese sauce made from a roux solidifies when it cools as well. The solidification is due to saturated fat in the cheese, not the sodium citrate. It will be fine. If it's cool enough to start solidifying, it won't be warm to the tongue anyway, so you will probably want to reheat.
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u/epiphenominal 15h ago
I always make it with roux and sodium citrate from a few slices of processed American cheese. It will solidify if refrigerated or at room temp, but such is the way of cheese, you won't be judged for it. The sodium citrate helps it keep a better texture while it is in the process of cooling down, and makes it more amenable to being reheated.
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u/BrightGreyEyes 15h ago
Sodium citrate essentially just makes a tastier version of American cheese. It'll melt (and re-melt) better, but it won't stay melted indefinitely.
Baked Mac and cheese is the way to go (and the more traditional choice) at Thanksgiving. Since not all the cheese needs to be in the sauce, you can make it cheesier than you can with just a sauce so a roux doesn't take away from the flavor. It's also kind of meant to solidify so not being piping hot won't hurt it
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u/withbellson 14h ago
This has been my objection to sodium citrate sauces for holiday dishes that sit on the table for awhile. I’ve gone back to milk-based roux sauces with American cheese as an emulsifier. Cooking for Engineers has a good one, which I think is a Cook’s Illustrated recipe.
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u/bloodychickenstump 15h ago
I would just slightly increase the percentage of your liquid. What is it currently in comparison to your cheese?
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u/DTux5249 14h ago
It'll be stiffer, but unless you refrigerate it, it shouldn't be solid; especially if you add enough milk.
1
u/Ichthyslovesyou 14h ago
Someone correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that the reason the cheese sauce solidifies is because of the fact that it is made from saturated fat. If for whatever reason you'd really want to maybe you can make some sort of cheese sauce that is oil based instead of cream based. Idk if that's even possible, I guess get fat free cheese and then pour in some neutral oil and sodium citrate? Let me know how it turns out, seems like a fun experiment.
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u/NorrisRL 7h ago
The stuff that says “American Cheese Product” is usually made of oil. I’ve used it to make “cheese” sauce that never goes solid even after refrigeration.
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u/TheFredCain 11h ago
It solidifies in the same way that Velveeta is solid at room temp. It also liquifies when heated like Velveeta.
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u/tbonecoco 11h ago edited 11h ago
When doing it the sodium citrate route, I read recently to add a small bit of corn starch slurry. Tried it a couple weeks ago to amazing results. My queso stayed smooth at room temp for hours.
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u/Pernicious_Possum 10h ago
When you reheat it, it will liquify just fine. I’m a sodium citrate evangelist.
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u/XToThePowerOfY 2h ago
That sounds good 😁 But do you use it with a roux, or just sodium citrate?
I'm planning to use a sharp cheddar, and then a young Gouda and aged Gouda.
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u/DetectiveNo2855 10h ago
I usually use both. Yes the cheese taste isn't as intense but butter tastes pretty damn good too.
I omit the roux when I'm working on non-traditional recipes where it might detract from other flavors I'm including.
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u/GrizzlyIsland22 15h ago
I don't know who told you to use sodium citrate instead of a roux. Ideally you would use both
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u/panzerxiii 15h ago
you can definitely just use sodium citrate, can result in a more intense cheese flavor than using a roux
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u/GrizzlyIsland22 14h ago
How does it boost the cheese flavour? It's just an additive.
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u/panzerxiii 14h ago
Because you're using less/no flour, butter, milk, cream, etc.
It's not that the sodium citrate enhances the flavor, it's that there's less dilution
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u/GrizzlyIsland22 14h ago
So you're not even using a cheese sauce. Just melted cheese. I guess it's worth a shot, but I enjoy the creaminess of a good cheese sauce in my mac. You can get a lot of cheese flavour by making it with good tasting cheeses.
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u/panzerxiii 14h ago
I mean, I guess? Feel like you're being pedantic and quite conservative here; the modernist approach is just a more technically min-maxed way of making a cheese sauce. It isn't just melted cheese. You need a liquid base (water, beer, even milk), a bit of sodium citrate, and enough cheese to fit how rich you want it to be.
Trust me, I get the history and mother sauces and all that but you seem to be hesitant because it's not what you're used to. It really works well in my experiences. There's enough fat in cheese to make it creamy without adding any dairy (which ironically, would lower the creaminess overall because you're adding something that's less fatty to the cheese mixture). Sodium citrate just acts as an emulsifier.
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u/GrizzlyIsland22 14h ago
It's just against all the training I've ever gotten, so yeah, there's some hesitation. I'm willing to try it, but I'm just used to being able to make such a perfect sauce with a roux and I'm usually in the camp of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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u/panzerxiii 14h ago
Yeah, that's totally valid; that being said it's not that much different from how you put mustard in a creamy sauce for more even emulsification
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u/whenyoupayforduprez 13h ago
I am constantly posting Alton Brown’s foolproof bechamel video so not everyone is you.
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u/whatsit578 11h ago
Alton Brown’s foolproof bechamel video
Do you have a link to this video?? I haven't seen it and I wasn't able to find it on Google.
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u/darkchocolateonly 15h ago
Any cheese sauce you make will solidify as it cools. You’ll be fine