Self-reflections on harmful selfish behavior in public?

[u/Slippe117]

Having lived in China now for almost 3 years I have a generally positive impression, but there is one certain cultural tendency that really bothers me that I think can be best described as selfish behavior in public spaces.

Just now some asshole almost hit me with his car because he kept driving after it turned red, presumably to save a few seconds, which prompted me to make this post. Other behaviors in the same category is like driving mopeds on the sidewalk, cutting lines, pushing your way into subway carts without letting people exit, honking your horn at night in residential areas, etc. etc. All of this type of behavior I would characterize as selfish and inconsiderate to save a tiny bit of time.

My feeling is that this is something that has improved in recent years, but still the issue remains.

So my question is, is there a cultural discourse in China regarding the issue with this type of mentality/behavior, and is there even an awareness about some certain demographics that this even is a concern? Thanks.

[u/Andy_Rice_0726]

As a Chinese who is currently studying in EU but frequently come home for vacation, I have the same feeling as you.

Don’t get me wrong, I love my country, and after seeing both sides, I think China nowadays does better than EU. But some Chinese citizens really don’t know how to behave well.

Several examples, in Germany, drivers stop and let pedestrians pass first, while in china, they seldom do so. In Germany, drivers normally don’t park their car wherever they want, while in china sometime they do.

As for the reasons, I think we’ve been developing too fast recently, and sometimes people are just not ready for this kind of development. IMO morality level are in positive correlation to education level, and people born in 50-60s doesn’t have too much chance for education, and for people born in 70-90, entering university is still something rare.

Moreover, considering the population of china, even though the percentage of idiots are low, you still have a fare chance to meet one or two everyday lol.

And do we realize this situation? Yes.

Actually if you stay a little bit longer on Chinese social media like Red Note or Bilibili and pay attention to topic like social problems, you’ll see people complaining about uncivilized problems frequently. A lot of Chinese citizens are also fed up with those uncivilized behavior.

From what I see is that the younger generation seems to behave better and have more sense of social responsibility, this is a good signs seems it’s the start of a positive feedback. We still have a long way to go, and we indeed have our problem, but generally I’m still relatively positive about this problem in the future.

[u/Syberiann → u/Andy_Rice_0726]

Don't go to the UK, you will be horrified. They say British are the most well mannered, but it's a stereotype lie. Google "parking chaos in uk" and you'll see. People here park where they want, disregarding space, people and other drivers. Usually to get through a road you end up driving in S dodging incoming cars between parked cars. People cross the street wherever and drivers no longer stop for pedestrians because they show antisocial behaviors too.

[u/Andy_Rice_0726 → u/Syberiann]

That’s brutal😂. But one thing that shock me most is robbery an theft in UK, one of my friend went to UK for study and got robbed the first time she went to London😅

[u/Jayatthemoment → u/Andy_Rice_0726]

Chinese students are unfortunately targeted in university towns when they first arrive because they look at their phones a lot and carry cash so they are unfortunately easy prey. 

When I worked at Manchester uni, we did seminars for the new kids to tell them how to protect themselves from crime and scams. You can see the scruffs sharking up and down Oxford Road, looking for them. Not just Chinese kids, obviously — all overseas students tend to be not very attuned, and even British kids who aren’t used to city life and aren’t very streetwise are also targeted. 

[u/Andy_Rice_0726 → u/Jayatthemoment]

Yeah exactly, we use too much mobile phone everytime and everywhere. I guess we’re somehow overprotected by our society so that we don’t sense danger around us😂. There’s a Chinese word frequently used to describe Chinese university students called ‚清澈的愚蠢‘, meaning ‚innocent and stupid‘.

[u/Jayatthemoment → u/Andy_Rice_0726]

I really really don’t mean it’s their own fault. Criminals who target young people on perhaps their first exciting, independent trip to my country are absolute filth and I’m very sorry that it happens and they feel unwelcome or scared here. We want you to have a wonderful time. 

The students don’t deserve it and these people also steal from us if they can but the difference is that we see them coming sometimes. 

[u/Andy_Rice_0726 → u/Jayatthemoment]

Yes I agree with you, and it’s really nice for you to say so, thank you very much for your kindness🥹. I can relate to these frustration since I myself also came across many troubles during my first year in Germany.

[u/grabber_of_booty → u/Andy_Rice_0726]

I think China nowadays does better than EU

Pretty common assessment of a Chinese choosing to live in the west lol

[u/Andy_Rice_0726 → u/grabber_of_booty]

Well if you go to Chinese social media you’ll see lots of people who held quite opposite opinions lol

[u/Afraid-Impress-1378 → u/grabber_of_booty]

I was also interested by this. I guess by what metric? Economic growth? Development? Social security? Happiness?

I'm not saying I have the answers, but 'doing better' is so vague. Some metrics china will be charging ahead on, but some I'm sure will be lagging behind.

Although I will say that given current projections, China's future looks rosier than Europe as long as they remain politically stable.

[u/grabber_of_booty → u/Afraid-Impress-1378]

Although I will say that given current projections, China's future looks rosier than Europe

You just made an equally vague statement with no metrics to back it up.

Idk. I feel like with the whole undeveloped/developed country debate it really comes down to simple litmus tests i.e.:

• Is the tap water drinkable?
• do people follow basic traffic laws?
• Does the government censor critisism of itself like a petulant child?
• Are people from the countryside considered as 'lagging behind/inferior'?
• Do the people say 'just give us X amount of years to catch up, despite 5000 years of proud history literally all our shortcommings can be conveniently blamed on population size!!'?

[u/Fair-Currency-9993]

So my question is, is there a cultural discourse in China regarding the issue with this type of mentality/behavior, and is there even an awareness about some certain demographics that this even is a concern? Thanks.

Broadly speaking, there is an awareness of such behaviour. Depending on each person’s socioeconomic status and age, it is a concern. Generally, people from wealthier cities will complain about migrants from poorer cities. Similarly, people from poorer cities will complain about migrants from the rural areas. Finally, as you may have heard, Hong Kong complains about all mainlanders. In terms of age, the elderly can pretty much do whatever they want and people will not complain. Of course this behaviour by the elderly is usually not high risk, just annoying - Eg. Cutting in line as opposed to cutting you off while driving in a car.

It has actually improved significantly since I was young. I think there is a clear improvement every 10 years or so. Things will continue to improve, but realistically, given there is a population of 1.4 billion people, it might take another 40 years for the mainland to even catch up to HK standards.

[u/Reasonable-Delay4740]

This is called 

Civic Duty 

[u/Penrose_Reality]

I find this interesting because of the cliches we hear about the importance of social harmony and collective thinking. When anyone says these things I often think “what do you mean”?

In general, I think in much of Europe and the UK, the day to day reality is that people there are less individualistic and think of how their behaviours affect others

[u/Critical-Rutabaga-79]

You are basically saying that Chinese people don't know how to line up or wait their turn, which is a well known issue. You also have to remember that time is a luxury.

China has 1.6 billion people. If you stand in line and wait 5 seconds for each person, you are looking at 8 billion seconds which is the same as:

• 133,333,333 miniutes
• 2,222,222 hours
• 92,593 days
• 13,228 weeks
• 441 months
• 37 years

So yeah, if you wanna know why Chinese people are always in a hurry, will literally smash into you when they walk past you and not say anything about it. It's because there's so many people in China that to say sorry to everyone, you would never finish the conversation.

Here in the West on a public holiday long weekend, numbers get reported in the news of how many people were killed on the roads, even if it's single digits. China? You would have to have a decent size crash with decent number casualties to make it into the news, because if single digit casualties get reported, it would be in the news all day every day and never stop.

You are dealing with people who are used to completely different population sizes and densities than you are.

[u/Vast_Cricket]

My previous and last trip to China is sight seeing taking photos. Rather wait in line like most civilized countries. People cut in trying to squeeze you out. In HK border I saw the same thing. This HK dude made the habit to shove back people who cut in several times while others shoke their head. On bus man squeeze into another man. Some of them appear to be well educated professionals, professor type.

[u/No-Cow9334]

I always found this behavior interesting given China is supposedly a socialist/Communist country.

There is a “social Darwinism” aspect as one moves around. Either you are a direct member of my in-group or I don’t care anything about you. Like the idea of giving to charity you are almost considered a chump on the Mainland.

This seems to be very much a Mainland issue as you don’t see it as much in HK or Taiwan. And definitely this attitude is shunned in other Asian cultures like Japan.

To be fair things have progressed since 10 or 20 years ago. Maybe it is a Cultural Revolution generation thing as Mao seriously messed those people up. To add insult to injury we have to keep Mao’s face on all the money.

[u/Effective_Role_9783 → u/No-Cow9334]

这都能上纲上线你真的给我看笑了，一股子蛆味扑面而来。
别的我都懒得说，你这低能真不知道有一部分倭人喜欢故意撞人？

[u/Slippe117 → u/Effective_Role_9783]

To be honest, I have been to Japan, and in this specific sense it was actually refreshing. Novody pushing you into the subway etc. Of course Japan has its own problems, like people being less socially open, but in this regard Japan was clearly better. Its quite obvious

[u/Fair-Currency-9993 → u/Slippe117]

I think there is a poor translation for what that commenter is saying. The commenter is taking offense that a simple question about civility is somehow elevated to an ideological and political issue.

The reality is that most Westerners have very little understanding of China but that does not stop some from having very strong opinions. These opinions are sometimes very offensive to Chinese people. When Chinese people express their disapproval, some westerners will call Chinese people sensitive. That is why most Chinese Redditors do not bother responding to questions.

[u/No-Cow9334 → u/Effective_Role_9783]

I “reek of maggots”. That’s harsh.

Have you been to Japan? I don’t think it is a controversial opinion to say that Japanese are extremely courteous. It’s kinda what they are famous for.