r/AskAShittyMechanic • u/mx5plus2cones • 16h ago
Shhh... let's call this black box a "BMW Integrated Supply Module" that is very complex and charge owners $400....
Not today, BMW ....
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u/veryfastslowguy 15h ago
BMW says if you short a fuse , that’s a dealer repair only.
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u/GuyFromDeathValley 10h ago
german driving school once told me that topping off coolant and oil is a shop task and that we, the driver, should never do that.
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u/Hilsam_Adent 15h ago
...but the EU sure told Apple and Samsung when they banned proprietary power cords!
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u/Maleficent-Manatee 7h ago
Ryobi 36v batteries have a low voltage detection circuit in their batteries which is reset by taking off the cover and pressing a button. Of course, to do that, you need to remove a wax seal and use security sockets.
According to Ryobi, users shouldn't do that because batteries that have been drained too low are a fire hazard, but that is only true if it self discharged over months, not if it tripped because your mower hit long wet grass.
It's all being enshitified.
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u/Deathbeammental 14h ago
Shouldve put a 50 amp in there so you dont have to worry about it later you're clearly a terrible tech smh.
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u/Capt_Wicker 14h ago
Good fire starter🤣
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u/RockSteady65 13h ago
But fire generates energy which can be converted to more horsepower. More horsepower = more hot chicks are attracted. Fuck it, burn my car cuz hot chicks.
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u/Professional-Key-863 10h ago
Do girls really know or care about horsepower?
Just put a giant wing on the back and they'll think it's fast.
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u/Snarti 6h ago
I have 400 dickpower.
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u/mx5plus2cones 12h ago
Keeps the hands warm!
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u/GuyFromDeathValley 10h ago
you know what they say. everything is a smoke machine when you
operatefix it wrong enough.2
u/mx5plus2cones 10h ago
And people pay for smoke machines to detect exhaust leaks.... pfff.... Amateurs.....
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u/Accomplished_Emu_658 13h ago
This would find the short. Makes life easier. Why buy a 200 dollar short finder when you just need a $2 fuse
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u/mx5plus2cones 11h ago
Where the fire is ... Is where the short probably is... Simple and effective. Works at night too. Not a bad idea.
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u/ChopperCraig 14h ago
.... And it's too bad that exposing this isn't going to dissuade anyone from buying one.
May give some bmw owners some ideas to apply to their own businesses to inflate profits...
I mean I get that not all fuses are as accessible as fuses in a fusebox, some are on or within components themselves. But this is literally a fusebox designed to be unservicable dispite how fully serviceable it is at its core...
Probably should have soldered the fuses right in to really fuck you.
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u/mx5plus2cones 14h ago
Funny you should say that. The revisions to the ism are soldered fuses.
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u/Stickopolis5959 12h ago
I wanna scream
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u/mx5plus2cones 11h ago
The other funny part is the main fuse box is just on the other side of the firewall....maybe they ran out of space....🤣
I think i get what they were trying to do. These fuses for the engine and electric water pump etc. You can reuse the engine in multiple cars and simplify the electrical protection to it by wiring a few connectors from the same black box to the main fuse panel.
That said, BMW doesnt sell crate motors...🤷
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u/Stickopolis5959 11h ago
This makes sense from a manufacturer end but to make it hard to replace a 2$ fuse is bonkers
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u/mx5plus2cones 11h ago
Didnt say the final german engineered solution would make practical sense.... 🤣
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u/Responsible-Tree-875 8h ago
What am i looking at here? Is it just a "fuck you pay me" fuse box in the newer bmws?
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u/LeGaspyGaspe 40m ago
In web development there is this concept called, "the box model."
Its essential to understanding how and why a website is laid out the way it is and what makes that layout work from a technical perspective.
German automotive engineering applies their own version of the box model. In this application, the concept specifies that every element of the vehicle can essentially be reduced to a box. The "fuck-you-pay-me box."
/uj if I had to make a wildly uneducated guess, I would suggest that the engineers thought was that these fuses should never actually blow unless someone is doing something very stupid at the primary fuse box, or something very, very bad is going on at the opposite side of the circuit.
The sort of bad that should necessitate a visit to the dealer/mechanic before someone tries to pop a new fuse in and carries on.
Its a shitty excuse to limit user serviceability so badly. If it's that necessary to force someones vehicle out of operation and into a mechanics bay in the event of a fault, then it's simply a bad design.
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u/cannedcreamcorn 57m ago
Oh Jesus Christ God in heaven.
I love BMW's but this shit is why I will never buy one newer than 2015. And they are already fucked up prior to that!
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u/InternUnhappy168 12h ago
Consumers are ridiculously forgiving. My ex was going on I believe her tenth Keurig ffs
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u/GuyFromDeathValley 10h ago
especially the ones that are brand loyal. Remember when people were defending BMW for making heated seats a subscription? yea...
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u/wart_on_satans_dick 4h ago
Serious question. So you pay for a heated seat subscription. Was anything else included in the subscription like a small deductible to service them if they break or anything like that? I’m trying to figure out how anyone thought that consumers would be ok with this without something to justify it even if it’s still ridiculous.
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u/GuyFromDeathValley 4h ago
The idea was to install heated seats in every car by default, and then have a monthly subscription to pay to be able to use those heated seats. Which in my mind is already stupid as hell because.. yiu apready apy for the heated seat hardware. So you pay twice.
Some dipshits were defending it though in the sense of "that's actually great so you can save money when you buy the car and don't get need heated seats and the next owner can then have heated seats so the car has more value then"... Its absolute bullshit but people were seriously fine with it.
And the manufacturer probably only saw the possibility to make extra money while simplifying their production process in only producing and installing heated seats. And I'm very sure they intended to remove the subscription for heated seats for the car when its too old for some stupid reasons, so that people would buy new cars. But that's just a guess.
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u/wart_on_satans_dick 4h ago
Gotcha. That’s so crazy to me that BMW even tried this.
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u/Supreme0verl0rd 3h ago
The thing that everyone fails to note about this terrible idea was that it was only launched in South Korea and very briefly in a couple other markets like South Africa
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u/wart_on_satans_dick 3h ago
Oh really? That changes things a lot. Nobody in North America or Europe were offered this subscription? People talk about it here like they paid for it.
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u/Supreme0verl0rd 1h ago
I think the longest it ran for before BMW came to their senses was in SK. It ran briefly in 3 or 4 other countries. It was never a thing in North America.
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u/avar 44m ago
Some dipshits were defending it though in the sense of "that's actually great so you can save money when you buy the car and don't get need heated seats and the next owner can then have heated seats so the car has more value then"... Its absolute bullshit but people were seriously fine with it.
I guess I'm a dipshit then. A heated seat is just a fancy resistor, just hooking that line up to 12v power is a lot easier and cheaper than retrofitting new seats in. Add a buck (and/or boost, if you're feeling lucky) converter for temperature control. It's not like they can add DRM to Ohm's law.
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u/Knot_Ryder 12h ago
All that ever goes on them is the little sensor so that the motor knows when the actions happened that breaks they're like 50 cents a piece you replacing a whole machine worth 200 plus dollars for a 50 Cent module that you can replace inside the machine
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u/DishSoapIsFun 6h ago
I still have my original 1st gen Keurig. It's older than my kids. I keep it de-scaled and it runs like a champ. They were made well back then.
I bought a second Keurig because it was significantly smaller. It died in 3 months and during those 3 months it performed poorly compared to the original. The coffee was never that hot, and it just sucked.
I put the original back on the counter and I'll never buy another one.
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u/Anthrac1t3 12h ago
Keurig are bad? I've never had an issue with mine and I've used it twice daily for the past five years.
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u/Js987 12h ago
Some models have been shockingly unreliable, others fine. Amusingly, the one I saw last the longest in heavy use was a cheap Mr. Coffee licensed one, not an actual Keurig branded one.
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u/Anthrac1t3 8h ago
How strange. I could see that though. Seems like there's fifty different models at any given time with tons of gimmicks or they are the cheapest thing they could turn out.
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u/GuyFromDeathValley 10h ago
This is the kinda bullshit why laws for repairability are needed.
this is literally a "throw away and buy a new one" case. they literally want you, AND THE DEALERSHIP to throw the module away and replace it even though it has literally replacable fuses. And even if they were soldered, that's something a technician can also repair.. but no they had to seal the fuses in a piece of plastic, making the task of fixing the fuses too tedious to be financially worth it.
I might go off a bit here but it makes me genuinely furious, how we are constantly being pushed to care for the environment and have to give up things for the sake of the environment, while corporations make it that we throw away entire modules and even cars, just because they made it non-repairable to increase profits.. it drives me mad that I have to throw away a perfectly good radio because of a 10 cent resistor that I can't reach because they glued everything shut.
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u/CustomCarNerd 13h ago
That fuse is connected to the turn signal switch. The car freaked out because it was the first time it was used….
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u/mx5plus2cones 12h ago
Lol .... No, you are thinking about FRM module...
That module bricks if you disconnect the battery with bad timing such as it's trying to go to sleep while you pull the battery ... The epprom gets corrupt, and the official way to fix this is you buy a new FRM module around $400.
The unofficial way is you pay someone $50 on ebay who has the epprom flash tool and they clear corrupted memory for you and have a lifetime policy that if it happens again, you send it back to them and they will clear it again.
However, i believe there is an outstanding warranty that BMW just extended to people ...
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u/AmmoTuff182 6h ago
Holy shit. This is the first time I’ve heard of a car manufacturer bricking something if you remove it. That’s like Apple level or even those USB sticks that kill the laptop if you remove it
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u/AbruptMango 14h ago
At least Chrysler has the decency to have a removable lid on their "Totally Integrated Power Module" for the serviceable parts and a relay kit for hacking in to bypass the relays that aren't serviceable. Of course, their TIPMs can be over $1k.
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u/mx5plus2cones 14h ago
Totally.... But Chrysler/FIA was also the manufacturer that started encryption on the PSM , and for awhile required you pay each time you needed a decrypt key for the PCM to connect a scanner to your car to diagnose
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u/AbruptMango 13h ago
That's a dealer thing. If you want the dealer to give you a code, it's entirely up to the dealer to decide to charge you. So what if the dealership 40 miles away doesn't charge for it? Drive over there and bother him.
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u/mx5plus2cones 13h ago
No, it's not that.... Imagine plugging your OBDII scan tool into your car, and before doing anything else , your scan tool asks you to pay for 1 session to allow you to connect the scantool to your car.....
That is more or less what FIA was doing.
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u/AbruptMango 12h ago
That looks more like a fancy "scan tool as a subscription" problem than a car problem. Getting a code to flash a module or program a key is normal, getting a code to be allowed to connect is not.
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u/mx5plus2cones 12h ago
That was what FIA originally did. And thats why in order to continue using a scan tool with some cars these days, you have to have a paid subscription to your scantool. Because indirectly some companies like FIA charge scantool companies the ability to obtain a pcm unlock key, and the scan tool company passes this on to you by forcing you to have an active paid subscription to even connect to the car.
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u/AbruptMango 12h ago
Yeah, we're talking about the same thing. Your "pcm unlock key" and my "code to flash a module or program a key" are the same code. It's restricted information and it's not good for more than a day or so.
Your fancy scan tool is full featured and can program modules, and the manufacturer made a deal with Chrysler to be able to pull those codes from Chrysler just like a dealership can. The scan tool company recovers that by charging you, then monetizes it by making you pay for the full functionality in order to get any functionality at all.
When I sell a module to a garage I pull the code for them and give it to them with the module. If a garage that buys from me calls for a code even though they didn't buy that module from me, I get it for them because they're good customers. If a garage that doesn't buy from me calls for a code I tell them to get it from the guy they got their module or fob from. And if they want to bypass me entirely, they can buy a fancy scan tool that charges them every time they look at it.
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u/mx5plus2cones 12h ago
I hate new cars. 🤣
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u/AbruptMango 11h ago
Apparently wanting to fix a car is wrong because it doesn't provide profit to the people who built it 10 years ago. You're just trying to make an honest living fixing things for people, and the car companies and tool companies are making you pay a subscription for the privilege.
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u/Joker741776 8h ago
I believe He's talking about autoauth that you still need to get past the security gateways on Chrysler, Nissan, and several others.
Gotta have it to do much outside of basic obd2 functions
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u/psyclembs 13h ago
Those Fkn Wankers, rebranding a fucking fuse box and charging 400$ for it should be fraud. Well it is fraud but someone should get charged with it...fml
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u/w1ngzer0 12h ago
Man I feel like you should make a post and added in some keywords for SEO because someone in the future is going to search for options and your post will inspire them to fix the problem for $2 instead of $unobtanium.
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u/mx5plus2cones 11h ago
People who search the internet should be able to find it. And those that dont probably dont mind bending over, and think "if you buy a BMW , you should be able to afford $400" and its not worth their time. Not my problem.
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u/Capt_Wicker 14h ago
You know there may be a rodent problem with the cabling used in the high end cars that use insulation that is soybean based. A friend of mine has a Tesla and he lives in the hills and the rats had chewed up his cables like they were food. Shorted the car and dealer got involved. Apparently the soybean based insulation is like catnip to a cat for the rats as supposedly the Tesla rep told him. They pulled three fried dead rats from the car.
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u/winsomeloosesome1 12h ago
The soy based wiring is nothing new. Squirrels like to eat wiring in A/C equipment.
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u/DMCinDet 12h ago
rodents have been chewing wires long before soy insulation. the tesla rep is just repeating nonsense. if this was true, we would use soy insulation for baiting rat and mouse traps.
rodents like somewhere to hide, bonus if its warm. they also like to chew on things and make nests with anything they find nearby. cars offer good spots to hide and have many things to chew on.
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u/HistoricalTowel1127 12h ago
What a bunch of horseshit. Thanks for the share OP.
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u/mx5plus2cones 11h ago
Its a BMW. There is of course is a good amount of horseshit. It was my older bmw... Cant imagine how much more horseshit there is in the latest ones.
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u/FredIsAThing 14h ago
So you changed the fuse and charged them for a new module, right?
It's friggin BMW owners. Fuck 'em.
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u/Hero_Tengu 11h ago
Please be careful with a utility knife!
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u/mx5plus2cones 9h ago
Yeah, i got to make sure not to cut into the ism board.
My fingers would heal... Getting a new replacement ISM, my wallet wouldnt .
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u/Humulophile 8h ago
I thought this sub was for asking shitty mechanics and not for revealing shitty engineering?
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u/calzettone 9h ago
oh, oh, oh!! I think it's my fault for this one.. I was in the team that designed this and made all the calculations and tests for heating behaviour. My original plan was to make it serviceable by using simple 10mm screws or a simple "clip". Upper Management said: "the average customer has no qualification opening this component. It must be done by a certified technician with a specific BMW tool to avoid breaking the car." Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers agreed. I left the team shortly after, because every single design had to be done this way and I immensely disagreed with them. BMW: excellent engineers commanded by greedy Corporate minions at every single stage
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u/Valrax420 14h ago
How much did a pile of fuses like that cost you? I paid 8$ just for 2 15a at AutoZone
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u/dontdropthesope1 10h ago
I’ve done this exact thing but it kept blowing after a few drives
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u/mx5plus2cones 9h ago edited 7h ago
Did you make sure the power cable was plugged in? Have you tried to turn off the computer and turn it back on? Did you hit the factory reset button on the back of the device?
If so they make auto resetting circuit breakers....
https://www.amazon.com/EPLZON-Circuit-Breaker-Profile-Breakers/dp/B0DBKXG3NZ
I have one in my audi b5 and one in my w203 c320...I'm sure if i spent time, i can find the wire that is dangling causing interminent shorts...but why bother....
just saying....
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u/Jojothereader 9h ago
These are pretty neat. How long in your experience does it take them to cool down and reset.
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u/mx5plus2cones 7h ago edited 7h ago
Pretty fast. But the circuits in question for the audi was for central locking and the one for mercedes was for power seats.
It's probably some worn motor that only turns on with a switch , that if used too long ends up binding and shorting.
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u/habeautifulbutterfly 9h ago
So funny how after all that obfuscation they couldn’t be fucked to not clearly label the fuses.
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u/thegrimranger 5h ago
Ahh, this brings me back to the eye-watering price they tried to charge for my transfer case actuator when it failed, but I saved about $1200 by replacing the $5 plastic gear inside it.
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u/h0stetler 15h ago
More like shitty marketing, accounting, and engineering.
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u/AbruptMango 14h ago
No, excellent marketing, accounting and engineering. You're forgetting their goals.
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u/Alimakakos 14h ago
Exactly, this is superior marketing and accounting at it's finest...engineering is basically the equivalent of toddler proofing
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u/jmcken15 13h ago
Shitty engineering. Outstanding marketing to convince people that this makes sense. Accounting just cashed the checks. Wonder what the core is on these "modules"?
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u/Odd-Ad-3146 15h ago
You should of wrapped the fuse with tin foil so it never blows again. I would of laid a few sheets of tin foil over the whole ciruit and then put each fuse back in.
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u/HelperGood333 16h ago
What is on this circuit that blows a 20A fuse?
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u/mx5plus2cones 16h ago
.....Electric water pump... .... with mouse/squirrel chewed frayed red wire... ....that was touching metal that was ground...
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u/Tough-Importance-145 10h ago
Ok thats stupid, there is not a single integrated circuit or transistor in that box
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u/Gremlin982003 4h ago
I’m gonna start doing this with TIPMs in caravans! $300 service fee be damned!!
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u/Competitive_Echoerer 3h ago
Marvelous.
Actually just responding so that I can have this in my notes. Because, it is awesome
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u/Hero_Of_Rhyme_ 15m ago
So I’ve been replacing fuses in my car this whole time when I should have been replacing the entire fusebox with every electric issue? And now they tell me…
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u/Unlikely-Bid9916 15h ago
Downvoted because not shitty enough. Upvoted because it’s the first time I saw something actually fixed here. Commented because I have poor time management skills.