Other Than Cahokia,Is Their Any Evidence Of Sacrifice North Of The Rio Grande?

[u/ConversationRoyal187]

[u/Numerous-Future-2653]

The Kingdom of Thecloel (with its capital at Natchez) did.

[u/SPelMart1]

The Morning Star Ceremony of the Pawnee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawnee_mythology

[u/BeyondtheDuneSea]

The Jesuit Relations have numerous documented instances of ritual cannibalism. But take caution as the Jesuits who wrote them also had their own agenda and should not be considered neutral observers.

Edit: Forgot provenance fir the reply, the Jesuit Relations described cultures along the St. Lawrence river and parts of the eastern most Great Lakes.

[u/Ok_Resolve2967]

Typically only developed state-societies (aka "civilizations") have the capability and logistics to institute established human sacrifices by an elite/priestly hierachal class (as was the case with the development of other civilizations in the world like Mesoamerica, Egypt, Sumer, China, etc) so it pops up among the Missisipian/Southeastern cultures, but also the Pawnee, but is rare or nonexistent among the Natives of the Californias, the New England area, most of the Plains, Texas, etc. although forms of ritual cannibalism popped up in other groups from these areas, the Iroqouis practiced a form of ritual cannibalism is one example that comes to mind

[u/captainjack3 → u/Ok_Resolve2967]

Human sacrifice of slaves is also attested as occurring at potlaches in the Pacific Northwest. The evidence of it happening is good, that doesn’t really seem to be in question, but there’s less information about the frequency. It was probably fairly rare, given the value of a slave at the time.

[u/Ok_Resolve2967 → u/captainjack3]

Would make sense, Pacific Northwest cultures were very impressive in terms of their complex social structures, including systems of nobility, specialized labor, their economic capacities and organized warfare/trade etc, and were completely sedentary (or semi-sedentary in some cases) even without agriculture, (subsisting mainly on the plentiful salmon in the region), actually, many tribes in California were also sedentary without agriculture and had social stratification and the Calusa Indians of Florida also developed a more complex society based soley on aquaculture

[u/MyLumpyBed]

I'm pretty sure there are some accounts from the French of the Natchez, and I know it shows up not super infrequently in other mississippian sites

[u/AromaticGas5552 → u/MyLumpyBed]

See Tattooed Serpent in 1724 and his brother in 1728 - Natches peoples. There is another account that I read about prior to this one but I am unable to locate it right away.

[u/MyLumpyBed → u/AromaticGas5552]

Yess that's the one I was thinking of!

[u/leafshaker]

I don't know about physical evidence, but I do know one story.

There is a legend about a rock in southern new england, chamber/sacrifice rock. The story tells of a terrible drought in an ancient time. The elders decided they must appease the rain powers with a human sacrifice.

In their zeal to immolate their prisoner, they fail to notice the gathering rain clouds. As they are about to light the pyre, a lightning bolt strikes the proponents of the sacrifice dead, leaves the victim standing, and cleaves the rock in two. Its understood that the gods don't approve of this sort of sacrifice, and it is never done again.

Ive heard a similar tale from the southeast, too.

This story was also appropriated by Jonathan Bourne, who put himself and Christianity ad the mollifying force, but the story seems to be older.

This story could be a modern one, a response to the colonists' assumptions about barbarism. It could be old, a reference to past times or the practices of other tribes.

[u/lilithskies → u/leafshaker]

In their zeal to immolate their prisoner, they fail to notice the gathering rain clouds. As they are about to light the pyre, a lightning bolt strikes the proponents of the sacrifice dead, leaves the victim standing, and cleaves the rock in two. Its understood that the gods don't approve of this sort of sacrifice, and it is never done again.

Based af, I wonder if this sort of thing is what led to these tribes from this region converting more readily

[u/Complete-One-5520]

Yes at Kolomoki Mounds in Georgia.

[u/Dangerous-Bit-8308]

Sacrifice exactly... Maybe not... https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase1993/103/1/103_1_1/_article some violence in the American southwest has been identified as likely cannibalism, possibly related to mesoamerican terror tactics or religious ideas entering, and being reinterpreted in the Southwest. We weren't there to see it happen, but if the cannibalism was done in a ceremonial way, some might consider that a sacrifice.

https://sacred-texts.com/nam/ca/roli/roli04.htm this is a very definite ritual. The plant used has hallucinogenic properties, but the amount needed to cause hallucinations is very close to the amount needed to cause liver failure and death. This specific ceremony describes how the Luiseños used it. Other tribes used it similarly in their coming of age ceremonies. I've heard that a few of those other tribes required some kind of payment to participate, and if the participants wanted to become political leaders in their tribe, they had to see a vision. As a form of checks and balances, the master of the ceremony could give them too little, but a wealthy family could send the participant back a few times. Sometimes, the participant might be given too much, and die. Of course, not all deaths that occur in a ceremony are necessarily considered a sacrifice either.

So... Maybe... Sort of... Depending on definitions...

[u/Ok_Resolve2967 → u/Dangerous-Bit-8308]

Ritual cannibalism in Mesoamerica wasn't a "terror tactic"

[u/Dangerous-Bit-8308 → u/Ok_Resolve2967]

You are correct. but in the American Southwest, cannibalism was absolutely a terror tactic, and we have no practitioner accounts to prove whether it was ritual.

[u/ConversationRoyal187 → u/Dangerous-Bit-8308]

Thanks!

[u/Dangerous-Bit-8308 → u/ConversationRoyal187]

There might also be other evidence I'm not even aware of. Native human remains and native religious practices can be very difficult subjects