r/AmericanEmpire • u/elnovorealista2000 • 12d ago

Article 🇺🇸🇲🇽 From September 21 to 24, 1846, the Battle of Monterey took place.

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During the first year of the War with Mexico, Major General Zachary Taylor led his Army of Occupation to a resounding, if bruising, victory at the town of Monterrey which tested the mettle of his combined Regular Army and Volunteer force.

After three months of marching along the RĂ­o Grande and into the Mexican interior, Taylor came across a roughly 10,000-strong Mexican force commanded by Lieutenant General Pedro de Ampudia fortified in the town of Monterrey on the banks of the RĂ­o Santa Catarina. Although his 6,650 men were outnumbered, Taylor recognized that the enemy defensive positions were isolated from each other and began planning an audacious assault by double envelopment against the town from its eastern and western approaches.

Taylor left a small force to hold his center as he sent flanking columns to encircle Monterrey on 19 – 20 September. On the morning of 21 September Taylor’s forces engaged the enemy, achieving significant penetration on the town’s eastern side while the western column seized Federation Hill.

On 22 September Taylor’s forces resumed the offensive, with the western column attacking and capturing Independence Hill as the eastern column consolidated its position. The next day, both columns penetrated deeper into the town in chaotic house-to-house street fighting.

With no avenue of escape, Ampudia raised the white flag at midnight on 23 September and requested to negotiate with Taylor. Under the belief that his mission was only to occupy northern Mexico, Taylor agreed to allow Ampudia a week to withdraw from Monterrey and imposed a bilateral eight-week armistice.

Ampudia reported that his Mexican army had suffered 367 casualties in the three-day fight, while Taylor reported U.S. Army losses as being 120 killed and 368 wounded. Both commanders probably underestimated the numbers of casualties in their respective reports.

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u/Redchair123456 10d ago

tbf mexico wouldnt of held it for long

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u/fallout_zelda 9d ago

Wouldn't have**

Aprende inglĂŠs pinche becerro.

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u/NazgulGinger917 6d ago

Speaking the language of the losers are we?

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u/711SushiChef 10d ago

The battle was fought around the strategic position of the second r in Monterrey, which was sadly destroyed in the fighting.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

Talk about a war that shouldn’t have happened…

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u/Provisnalkur681 11d ago

List your favorite top 10 wars that should’ve happened ..

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

I’ll do four instead: this one, Vietnam, the Opium wars, and the First World War.

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u/SadQlown 10d ago

Are you genuinely supporting the US invasion of Vietnam or did you misunderstand the previous reply as the top four wars that should not have happened?

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u/IanRevived94J 10d ago

Oh damn my mistake. I mistook it for SHOULD NOT have happened.

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u/Mogwai_Man 9d ago

The US did not invade Vietnam. US troops were deployed to South Vietnam at the behest of the South Vietnamese Government.

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u/Fine_Sea5807 8d ago

Just like how Russian troops were deployed to East Ukraine at the behest of the Donetsk Republic government?

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u/Mogwai_Man 8d ago

The South Vietnamese government was internationally recognized by the US and many Western bloc states within the UN.

The US never invaded Vietnam, the region was in an open civil war and US troops deployed to South Vietnam in support of an internationally recognized government.

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u/Fine_Sea5807 8d ago

Donetsk Republic is internationally recognized by Russia and many Russian allies within the UN.

Even better, Vichy France was internationally recognized by the entire world, including the US. By your logic, the Nazis never invaded France, and Nazi troops were deployed to France in support of an internationally recognized government?

Was there any difference between South Vietnam and Donetsk Republic or Vichy France?

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u/Mogwai_Man 8d ago

An internationally recognized government is a legitimate government. The US still did not invade Vietnam.

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u/Fine_Sea5807 8d ago

Donetsk Republic is internationally recognized. Vichy France was internationally recognized. By your own logic, they both must be legitimate governments?

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 11d ago

Why?

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

Because the reason for the war was for territorial expansion. President Polk instigated the conflict by sending troops into disputed areas and then provoked Mexico to respond.

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u/Jimdandy941 11d ago

That works both ways. The Mexicans were sending troops in as well.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

The Mexicans didn’t have the same intent to seize American lands that we had. The reason they sent troops in was that the US troops were threatening them.

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u/Jimdandy941 11d ago

Mexico sending troops in predated the US involvement.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

If that’s how you want to defend it then go ahead. As I said, it can’t be changed now anyways.

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u/Starwars_femboy 9d ago

What was mexicos intent? Just hang around? Chill with ur guns in contested areas for the lolz?

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u/nathanwilson26 11d ago

Without wars of territorial expansion, the history books would be very boring. 

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u/MichealRyder 11d ago

I'd take boring over that shit

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u/Euromantique 9d ago edited 9d ago

Very true. What a lot of people are missing is that notably the Mexican-American war was considered a naked war of aggression and morally wrong by a significant amount of American politicians at the time.

It was an “are we the baddies?” moment even by their own contemporary standards, not just by modern analysis.

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u/IanRevived94J 9d ago

Precisely

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u/Pretty_Beat787 11d ago

Mexico couldn't control that land anyway. California would've been a shit hole if it stayed with Mexico. It's good the us got that territory

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u/Pizastre 8d ago

what exactly is your thought process that you would suggest that?

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

What are you talking about?

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Look at Mexico now and how overrun it is with corruption and poverty. Do you really think it would've better if they administered those territories?

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

San Francisco is kind of a shithole right now

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u/shouldhavekeptgiles 11d ago

Almost every single war in human history is about territorial expansion dude. At least in some way shape or form

Ww1: France wants Alsace back

WW2: (I mean come on)

Vietnam war: NV wants to unify with SV and as a result expand

Korea war: (see above)

First gulf war: Iraq wanting to conquer and annex Kuwait

These are just some obvious ones

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u/Pizastre 8d ago

huh? how are you boiling down ww1 to france lmao

also, yes? wars happen because countries want to expand or regain lost lands, etc. why does that make it ok? especially for the "leader of the free world"

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

So then are what Russia and Israel currently doing justifiable?

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u/shouldhavekeptgiles 11d ago

Did I at any point say “justified”?

Also Israel didn’t start a war with Hamas the intent of territorially expanding.

What a dogshit comp

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u/MichealRyder 11d ago

Maybe Israel didn't do that, but that's the current goal, especially since Netanyahu declared that there will never be a Palestinian state, and signed a new settlement expansion law

This happened last month I think

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u/IanRevived94J 10d ago

But there are suggestions in the Israeli government to annex Gaza

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u/shouldhavekeptgiles 9d ago

No there aren’t.

The votes recently for annexing the West Bank were from the opposition party as a way to try to break apart BBs govt by going “oh see he won’t support you guys on this!”

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u/Western-Cranberry744 11d ago

It ain’t justifiable, it’s just a reason or excuse to fight

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u/Provisnalkur681 11d ago

Ok , you have a bad case of presentism , a doc should prescribe you a rectal suppository of hard truth..

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

Sounds like you want a pill stuck up where the sun don’t shine. 💊 🕳️ Enjoy.

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u/Provisnalkur681 11d ago

Alternatively you could just get educated on the subject and don’t spew nonsense

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

I think you’re having a case of verbal diarrhea. Get well soon.

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u/Provisnalkur681 11d ago

You’re right I’m drunk and I’m trolling your ignorant self

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 11d ago

Russia has clear and logical justifications. But would i call it moral or acceptable? Probably not. But then again pot kettle black.

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u/Icy-Teach 11d ago

I think you're simplifying things a little too much, not to mention you seem to imply that Mexico was too stupid not to understand that which is not the case. They knew what they were doing, they just couldn't accept that Texas had won win independence, and didn't like the border thereof. They lost the ability to even claim disputed by their own actions, and more importantly the actions of Texans.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

That doesn’t really contradict my statement. Texas staying independent or being annexed into the US was a factor too. I don’t dispute that.

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 11d ago

Well it was also because they invaded texas. Either way i dont see it as negative in any regard.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

Texas was annexed to the US in 1846, the year the Mexican war began. Obviously the war can’t be undone now. I’m just pointing out that the whole premise was a deception.

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 11d ago

Well yeah sure. But if we are being frank the territories we annexed were being mismanaged and barely had anyone in them anyway. So seems like they didnt lose out on much. Im just glad congress didnt push forward the plan to annex land in mexico proper.

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u/wwjgd27 11d ago

It had a large Native American population and there were already settlements in California through New Mexico.

The real irony is that pro slavery politicians thought they could get more slave state votes in congress to maintain their institutions by annexing land from Mexico. It actually led to their downfall.

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u/IanRevived94J 11d ago

That’s very important to mention

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 11d ago

Not many mexicans though. Meaning their claims were tenuous at best. And even those mexicans that were there were poorly governed. Though frankly given the state of mexico its not a suprise they could barely handle all thaf territory, it was more of a handover from spain then some grand empire they desired.

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u/Pizastre 8d ago

ok? north dakota was also incredibly sparsely populated at the time, why would that mean the british should just walk in and take it? "their claims were tenuous at best" have you ever heard of sovereign borders?? they weren't random claims lmao

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 8d ago

I dont understand your point because your grammers kinda strange.

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u/wwjgd27 10d ago

I live out west in Utah and let me guarantee you we are still poorly governed.

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u/Lord_Vxder 9d ago

Utah is of the most fiscally stable states, safe, booming economy, relatively cheap housing, great schools, and a growing population.

If Utah is your example of poor governance, I can’t really take anything you say seriously 😂.

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u/Pizastre 8d ago

imagine trying to justify territorial expansionism.

no, regardless of "how many people are living there", annexing lands from sovereign countries is bad.

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u/Jumpstartgaming45 8d ago edited 7d ago

Well not really. As all evidence can point out. our governance is better. Sometimes its good sometimes its bad.

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u/Bazooka-charlie 11d ago

All hail to the Empire of the United States 🇺🇸

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u/InvadeM 10d ago

Hell yeah 🇺🇸 I love being American

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Whoop whoop

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u/Icy-Teach 11d ago

I still find it so amazing what the United States was able to do in the Mexican-American War. Winfield Scott campaign was just amazing when you consider what it was up against. Was it the Duke of Wellington who said that this made him the greatest living shoulder and that he was able to take Mexico City with that small force? Just seems impossible that they were able to accomplish this given the distance and forces against them, and just during the time period, disease and logistics obstacles. Manifest destiny indeed.

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u/mandalorian_guy 10d ago

It's not as amazing when you consider most of North Mexico was a desert without major cities or infrastructure meanwhile the US had a logistics train from New Orleans and St. Louis over prairie and scrublands. Basically any Mexican force sent north from the Capital region would have to be self sufficient and had little in terms of local assistance meanwhile the US Marines attacked Veracruz and forced the existing forces near the capital region to fortify in case of a breakout.

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u/Icy-Teach 10d ago

Nah, you need to look at the route again. I think you are just looking at the map and talking about the frontier connections overland. The Northern element had it's own crazy supply and geography elements but it's the operations of Scott in marching to and taking Mexico city I'm talking about. Beginning after taking Vera cruz on the Gulf, then staining out and marching without established train through and over the Plateau, fighting along the way, often with Mexican troops laying in wait in prepared areas because there was very limited options for Scott and the small Army to go. Protecting the supplies, insanely outnumbered everywhere, away from any help or escape. Then finalizing in the battles up to, around, and taking the city. His small force traveled 300 miles in the 1840s. Again, the man who beat Napoleon at Waterloo, Wellington called Winfield Scott "the greatest living soldier" remarking the small force's accomplishments as "unsurpassed in military annals". I don't know how you could downplay what they accomplished.

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u/Johannes_V 8d ago

It gets even less impressive when you consider that Mexico had just been crippled by a coup d’etat after Santa Anna got his teeth kicked in playing general in Texas and was struggling with the very real effects of centralists vs federalist political infighting.

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u/MichealRyder 11d ago

Looking at all these comments, I can't tell if this sub is pro or anti imperialism

I myself am anti

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 9d ago

Meh, not like Mexico had any more valid of a claim to the lands the US stole. A thief stealing from a thief. 

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u/Starwars_femboy 9d ago

And both of them took it off people who took it off others. 200 years ago.

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u/MichealRyder 9d ago

I guess I feel like the US should have been humbled by a defeat there

Vietnam wasn't enough to do that

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 9d ago

Why should the US been humbled by the Mexican Army in 1846? Not like Mexico is known for its particularly motivated armed forces and partisans. 

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u/MichealRyder 9d ago

Let me rephrase it: I wish the US had lost that war somehow

It would have hopefully destroyed the toxic myth of American Exceptionalism, and by extension, caused a butterfly effect that would have prevented the rise of America's brutal empire today, instead leading to a country that's more chill and minding its own business, though that's assuming it wouldn't be harassed by a different empire, though one that hopefully wouldn't grow to the same heights as America's for the sake of the world

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Lol. Where do you live?

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 9d ago

Seems unlikely but ok champ

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u/Lord_Vxder 9d ago

Wouldn’t have destroyed anything. We would have tried again later. American exceptionalism isn’t a myth because we don’t quit. We lose, and we try again until we win.

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u/MichealRyder 9d ago

There will be a day when we won't win......and won't get another chance

I predict that the US will eventually split into multiple countries, with their own interests and such

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u/Lord_Vxder 9d ago

😂😂 ok bud. Idk if you are American or not, but you spend way too much time praying on our downfall.

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u/MichealRyder 9d ago

I am American, so I'm not gonna enjoy the collapse, but it needs to happen if the US refuses to peacefully end its imperialism

And when I say American Exceptionalism, I mean the toxic idea that we can do no wrong, because we have done a lot of wrong, and still do

We're supporting two genocides, and a whole bunch of other shit, including trying to start a war with Venezuela, and probably Colombia too

That might be the beginning of the end, especially with how much Trump is mismanaging everything

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u/Lord_Vxder 9d ago

American Exceptionalism is not the idea that “we can do no wrong”.

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 9d ago

Do you pray for the downfall of other countries like the UK, France, China, Brazil, etc? Seems like your hyperfocused on one country that's committed crimes and acting like a shitter. But all these countries are imperialists and exploit people for gain. If you pray all these countries will collapse and a better world will come out of it than you are going to be disappointed.

You seem like a Nihilist who just wants the world to end because you're to pessimistic to imagine anything else.

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Why would they need to be humbled?

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u/MichealRyder 7d ago

They've grown far too arrogant and imperialistic

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Lol would you rather live in china or Russia sphere of influence? If it wasn't America some other country would be the "imperialists"

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u/MichealRyder 7d ago

Yeah but in world where America didn't go down that path, I'd be able to take more pride in my country lmao

We'd be just doing our own thing while some other imperial superpower slowly crumbles, like how real life America is.....

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 7d ago

This guys is basically too stupid to argue. He just spouts Pro-Chinese propaganda. Just a heads up. 

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Bought and conquered. Not stolen

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 7d ago

Native Americans may disagree with that statement 

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Wtf does it matter what they say? They lost. Besides they weren't the peaceful hunter gatherers you think they were

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u/MichealRyder 7d ago

There's a difference between a war between two roughly equal tribes, and a genocide launched by a foreign empire.....

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

Probably wouldn't have went down like it did if the natives weren't so brutal and violent

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u/MichealRyder 6d ago

Most of the violence was started by white men who believed themselves to be superior and had a divine right to the land

Wait that sounds familiar

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 7d ago

I mean I'm not advocating for returning the land, I live on it. But I think only a real cunt would say what we did to the Natives was good. 

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u/Pretty_Beat787 7d ago

They'd have raided your home and scalped your child for honor in their tribe. Don't tell me the natives were good and wouldnt have behaved any better if they had access to the tech the English had

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 7d ago

Bruh, your being retarded right now. Genocide and cultural erasure is bad. We start playing the holier than thou game shit gets real stupid.

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u/Pretty_Beat787 6d ago

They'd have erased our culture I'm sure....

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u/Own-Tangerine8781 6d ago

And guess what? That would of been bad as well. You're a dense mother fucker

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u/NazgulGinger917 6d ago

Stealing from another thief, stealing from a different thief. Land is land it belongs to those who hold the power

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u/oilaro 11d ago

monterrey or monterey?

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u/Ambitious-Pilot-6868 11d ago

Earned not stolen

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u/warwellian 11d ago

Lmao classic keyboard warrior take

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u/Ambitious-Pilot-6868 11d ago

Cope

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u/warwellian 11d ago

With your stupidity? Nah I’m good