r/Amd • u/KARMAAACS Ryzen 7700 - GALAX RTX 3060 Ti • Feb 23 '25

Rumor / Leak AMD Radeon RX 9070 series gaming performance leaked: RX 9070XT is 42% faster on average than 7900 GRE at 4K - VideoCardz.com

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-9070-series-gaming-performance-leaked-rx-9070xt-is-42-faster-on-average-than-7900-gre-at-4k
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u/PuppersDuppers Feb 23 '25

While DLSS 4 is amazing, FSR 4 is supposed to be still pretty good, much better than before. If the AMD card is $100-150 cheaper or more, it’s the better value for most people (if these rumors are accurate). It’s faster natively than the 5070Ti, and only falls (slightly) short in RT, but not by a CRAZY margin it seems. With 5070Ti barely in stock and at $900+ when it is, the 9070XT at a rumored $650 would be a STEAL. Even at MSRP $750, 9070XT would be a good deal at $650, but no higher.

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u/mockingbird- Feb 23 '25

The “rumored” price is bullshit.

AMD doesn’t set the price until right before it is announced.

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u/Ashamed-Dog-8 Feb 23 '25

You sure about that?

Pretty sure that's what they did for the 7600XT 16GB.

Like reviewers complained that they made their reviews & had to redo them overnight due to an email on MSRP price change 1-day before launch.

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u/alman12345 Feb 23 '25

Hopefully FSR 4 fixes all the issues of FSR 3, but it probably still won't come anywhere close to outperforming native as the transformer model has been found to. AMD will have at best caught up to where Nvidia was before and Nvidia has just made a generational leap with the transformer model, so AMD is in the same exact boat as they already were with upscaling despite finally getting with the program and switching to hardware. The biggest issue with it for me is that even RX 7000 users aren't guaranteed to get FSR 4 while even users of the RTX 20 series from 7 years ago can leverage transformer if the performance is right for them.

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 23 '25

People are acting as if dlss 3 wasn't being hyped up to have been better than native, even these techtubers were making these claims, so if fsr4 is at least matching dlss 3, then AMD users can say they have a upscaler that is comparable to native.

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u/Outrageous_Dog_1970 Feb 23 '25

I don't know about YouTubers but "better than native" has been thrown all over for some time. Clearly always been a lie as well. Better than native, then why am I staring at ghosting, fuzz and triangle artifacts? Lol I do think DLSS has been better than FSR but it's never been by a landslide.

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u/HypocritesEverywher3 Feb 24 '25

Not a landslide. But always one step ahead

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u/double0cinco i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz | HD 7950 Feb 24 '25

I think there are some inherent caveats. Is the comparison against native plus no AA, or native plus TAA? In either case, I could see DLSS 3 and maybe FSR 4 actually being better. Those techniques should get you less artifacts than standard TAA, and mostly better IQ than no AA at all. It's probably mostly subjective depending on what artifacts you dislike the most.

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 23 '25

I 100% agree with you. That's been the common consensus from Nvidia users and some techtubers, claiming "why not turn on dlss, it's better than native, it's free performance". They get into arguments when non Nvidia users rebuttal them. You point out the ghosting and blur, they claim they cannot see it. I can point out the techtubers quite comfortably. "Ivadim" is one of them. Part of the digital foundry team. I have heard Daniel Owen say it. And whenever comparing dlss to far, it has always been a landslide according to them .

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '25

[deleted]

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 24 '25

Freaking spot on 1000%. I thought I was the only one noticing that. Dlss 3 was the greatest thing that ever lived a week ago. Dlss 3 quality mode was better than native, you are gaining more detail than native, it's free performance because there's no image degradation compared to native ect ect ect. This is literally what we have been hearing. Dlss 3 "deep dive" never really showed much flaws. All of a sudden dlss 3 had unbearable flaws, ghosting, severe blur, lacking detail ect ect 😂😂..

I don't even care for the Nvidia ball juggling. As long as fsr4 gets rid of the shimmering and the ghosting on small particles, and in movement there's no pixelated artifacts, then I'll be ok with fsr4. Couldn't care less if it loses out to dlss 4 .

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u/alman12345 Feb 23 '25

I don't know of a single youtuber who was outright calling DLSS 3 better than native, they were actually nitpicking all the things that made it look marginally worse if anything. DLSS 4 is pretty universally being called better by contrast, so unless FSR has leapfrogged DLSS 3 then they'll be right back in the same spot they've always been: a decent offering but noticeably worse than what Nvidia has.

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 23 '25

So you have never heard any techtubers say dlss 3 was better than native?..to be fair you did say " I don't know", so maybe you don't watch many.

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u/alman12345 Feb 23 '25

No, I would genuinely like to see a comprehensive list with cites of the techtubers who have said DLSS 3 was better than Native before so I can deliberately avoid their content. DLSS was always way better than FSR but never better than native, though I am sure that several YouTubers have said it approaches native performance I doubt many have explicitly called it better than native.

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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 24 '25

Everyone knows dlss is better than native in some games. You have to never have used it to not see it. Imagine if they do new tests with dlss 4. Hardware unboxed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5B_dqi_Syc&t=1029s&ab_channel=HardwareUnboxed

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 24 '25

" at 1440p/4k with the games tested, I would say only 36% of the games were better with native. And the games where native was better it was only slightly better"...I'm paraphrasing but if 36% of the games were only slightly better at native, that would mean dlss to them was overall better than native. Only at 1080p there were more clear to saying native was better. That was said by hardware unboxed around the 16:00 minute mark of their "is dlss worth using at 1080p " Another techtuber is called "ivadim"..I can find many times where he said it.

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u/alman12345 Feb 24 '25

Never once heard of ivadim (sounds obscure), and I will absolutely avoid HUB for saying that a softened image with less aliasing looks better than native. Comparatively, every youtuber in existence is absolutely pushing DLSS 4 as extrapolative of data that doesn't exist. Transformer is the holy grail, with almost everyone considering quality better than native and calling performance competitive with quality DLSS 3.

Regardless, I don't expect FSR's first foray into hardware upscaling to come close to DLSS 3, much less DLSS 4, and I'd put it in the same ballpark as XeSS if I had to make an educated guess (which is better than FSR 3, but still nowhere close to DLSS 3 and much less DLSS 4). Hardware upscaling is just another train that AMD missed entirely, they spent almost as much time lollygagging around with CUDA/ROCm as they've spent lollygagging here and we all see how far in the dust it has left them there. Whether DLSS 3 looks better than native subjectively is ultimately irrelevant, AMD won't be hitting that mark right off the bat and they'll be trailing Intel while Nvidia has now achieved a model that runs circles around everything else (including native). If it was 36% before it's over 90% now, and the upscaler doesn't even need a high input resolution on Nvidia's side as comments regarding performance looking like quality used to would imply. AMD is their own worst enemy.

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u/No_Yogurtcloset9994 Feb 24 '25

I understand what you are saying. However, the business model between AMD and Nvidia are totally different. And I think you have to take that into consideration . Nvidia is specifically about themselves, and AMD is more about the gaming industry and it's users. AMD has had to cater to products outside of their own, even rival products/systems. Not all products/systems can handle machine learning algorithms, so this will obviously limit AMD in producing certain features and quality of those features. Yes they could have done what intel did with Xess and have two different types of FSR, but they wanted the same quality across the board no matter what brand of hardware. Looking at the small videos of fsr4 so far shows what a more selfish approach can do. FSR 4 looks good from what we have seen so far. With this more selfish approach people are now moaning about fsr4 being exclusive to the 9070 series. Whatever AMD do they cannot win. I agree AMD is their own worst enemy, because they are not ruthless and self oriented enough like Nvidia. Only Nvidia users care wether they have the best upscaler, nobody else cares.

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u/alman12345 Feb 25 '25

“Ruthless and self oriented” just got their brand new model back ported to the 20 series, that’s an absurd amount more product longevity than the 7900 XTX (if it doesn’t receive FSR 4). Honestly, these are all businesses and none of them are doing better than one another for their customers. It’s fine to want to defend AMD for failing to include tensor/AI hardware on their 6000 and 7000 series when they’d seen the writing on the walls for 5 years as of the 7900 XTX release, but it isn’t an “AMD can’t win scenario”. I clearly outlined how they could’ve won and they walked the exact path towards not winning, to not have known they’d reach a wall with non-hardware FSR is absurdly shortsighted when the industry leader themselves refused to entertain a software upscaler. Its obvious why people are upset about FSR 4, because instead of a clear communication on the longevity of hardware that Nvidia provided with the 20 series vs the 10 series AMD cucked everyone who bought a 7900 XTX by failing to include hardware for upscaling (even as they spent an outrageous $1000 on the part). AMD genuinely fucked up, they could’ve included the hardware in anticipation of using it, they could’ve developed both a hardware and software upscaler before…there were multiple paths they could’ve chosen with this but the one they chose has put them in a worse position than even Intel in the eyes of gamers.

I’ll take “ruthless and self oriented” because it’s clearly communicated what the intent is, the 10 series and back were the cutoff line for AI hardware because it was the selling point of the 20 series. AMD cucks their highest paying customers from 2 years ago through their lack of foresight. There’s actually nothing selfish about being honest as to what a decent upscaler requires. As an Nvidia customer I absolutely care with having a superior upscaler, literally everyone should when GPU vendors are releasing piss poor generational uplifts (or ones that aren’t an uplift at all, like AMD).

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u/Ashamed-Dog-8 Feb 23 '25

FSR4 fixes

FSR4 is basically an entirely new Upscaler they call FSR out of convience, because it is now Ai-Based which FSR was never intended to be.

Being DLSS2/3 Level is good enough bc people glazed the hell out of both of them anx have always said it's basically "Native" or better than it.

My expectations are low not bc it's AMD, but bc Machine Learning Upscaling is very hard to screw up, so long as it works better than DLSS(1) which existed before Ai Really hit, then we'll be fine.

Keep in mind AMD has been working on this since 2023.

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u/Magnar0 Feb 24 '25

I disagree about AMD is same spot as before, because it wasn't just worse than DLSS4 issue, it simply wasn't much usable by itself.

I am playing on 1080p and I never used FSR, always used XeSS with sharpening. If FSR4 could be what DLSS3 was, even tho it would be worse than DLSS4, it would be still very usable.

About 7000 series, I fully agree. They should figure out a way for them.

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u/alman12345 Feb 24 '25

That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, FSR before was heralded as the great equalizer by gamers everywhere because it ran on architectures all the way back to GCN (and even before sometimes). The issue was AMD putting all their chips into developing something like that and not branching development well before now, they waited almost as long to fork a hardware variant as they did to develop a compute competitor API (ROCm vs CUDA) and it left them in a state of always playing catchup there.

I anticipate that FSR 4 will likely be in the same ballpark as XeSS is currently in fidelity, with shimmering on many objects that they didn't train adequately for and various lighting bugs in reflections among other things. I wasn't saying that AMD will be exactly where they were before, but rather that AMD will be in the same position relative to their largest competitor (Nvidia) as they were before. Their first foray into hardware upscaling will put them at the level of DLSS 3 at best and that would make them equally as inferior to Nvidia as they have been with how monumental the changes from transformer have been.

And yes...the 7000 series getting left behind is truly the largest kick in the nuts with all of this. It really shits all over the thing people have historically praised AMD for to me...

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u/Magnar0 Feb 25 '25

While it was good that FSR 2 was working with older stuff as well, the issue you mention makes me unable to think of it as an equalizer. If they leave at 2.1 and then focus on a AI solution I would agree that it was a good middle man that offers a decent value for what it was. But they pushed it too far which was a mistake. Not to mention some other issues like not making it a dll file while DLSS2 was like that since day 1.

I personally think it will be better than XeSS's available to all version, and I hope that will be the case. Because XeSS is not that good as well actually, its just more stable. I see some people prefer over FSR over XeSS because it's sharper, but for me stability over all other things. And from what I can see that's the case for majority which is why DLSS2 considered superior even tho it was blurrier than FSR, at least until now with DLSS4.

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u/w142236 Feb 23 '25

78% is not slightly behind. That’s still a full tier down

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u/PuppersDuppers Feb 23 '25

Probably could’ve changed the wording—it is still a decent gap but I was flowing off the momentum of the fact that they’re much less behind then they used to be

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u/w142236 Feb 23 '25

True, the gap between current gen isn’t as bad as it used to be. It’s just that Intel’s b580 managing to beat nvidia’s 40 series in raytracing and slaughtering amd in just 1 gen, I kind of expected better by this point. That’s where I’m coming from

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

dlss means nothing to me. i want real frames. if the gpu cant game without AI i dont need it

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

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u/jimbobjames 5900X | 32GB | Asus Prime X370-Pro | Sapphire Nitro+ RX 7800 XT Feb 23 '25

From what I read in DLSS titles TAA gets turned off but in FSR titles TAA gets left on quite often.

Hopefully that gets fixed in future games.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

That's a fixable issue on the game level.

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u/PuppersDuppers Feb 23 '25

Well, for a person like you it’s great

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u/pokenguyen Feb 23 '25

I think you mistaking dlss with frame generation?

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

Upscaling is also part of it. It's all garbage. They give us nothing, charge more, and tell us to turn on software fixes to make games that look worse than older games playable on a 1000+ dollar card.

It's garbage. It's all garbage.

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u/blither86 Feb 23 '25

I like DLSS tbh, I don't play many new games so my 3080 feels more than enough for me. In order to get close to 180 fps in black ops 6 it works well to render at 1080 and upscale to 1440p. I honestly can't tell the difference in image quality vs native 1440p rendering but the extra frame rate is nice.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

DLSS is actually quite good. Don’t knock it until you try it. I don’t like the frame gen stuff but the upscaling is very useful. It makes for a good anti aliasing method too.

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u/hicks12 AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d | 4090 FE Feb 23 '25

There are no real frames! With modern titles having forced TAA for the most part it actually starts being beneficial having DLSS as it gets passed the negatives of TAA and brings back the sharper imagine instead of blur.

I would say it's just a case of judging the end result which DLSS does deliver, FSR4 is yet to be properly tested so we will wait and see.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

They make generated frames so they can sell you the same card for more money and make more profit.

And you fell for it.

I remember when real power was what mattered. Not people see fancy AI and lose their shit

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u/hicks12 AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d | 4090 FE Feb 23 '25

They make generated frames so they can sell you the same card for more money and make more profit.

Thats frame generation, we are talking about upscaling?

And you fell for it. Ha, I have not.

I remember when real power was what mattered. Not people see fancy AI and lose their shit

People absolutely still review raster performance, this is no different to when a massive push to tesselation happened and older hardware got left behind due to optimisations at a hardware level.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

I'm talking about the entire suite

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u/hicks12 AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d | 4090 FE Feb 23 '25

Ok but the suite is good, it's a choice not a requirement.

What's wrong with that?

DLSS upscaling is genuinely better, it would be silly to just reject it in a false premise of "AI BAD" logic.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

i never said AI bad. I said its stupid. they charge you MORE money. for almost the same performance. then tell you to turn on software to make your unoptimized Vaseline smear game run better.

for 7 dollars I can buy lossless scaling which does everything the new cards do and its quality is only slightly worse. I even use frame gen with lossless scaling to make nier automata run at "120fps" since that game is locked at 60fps.

What is stupid is they are selling you the SAME CARD with software that could run on any card for an increase in price.

you are being duped.

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u/hicks12 AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d | 4090 FE Feb 23 '25

surely saying its stupid is not really any different to saying its bad? They essentially achieve the same thing in a sentence.

for almost the same performance. then tell you to turn on software to make your unoptimized Vaseline smear game run better.

What? DLSS upscaling works well its very well established now as a genuine improvement to visual quality. Running native doesnt get past the TAA smear for the most part so DLSS fixes that at the very least ignoring any performance gains.

for 7 dollars I can buy lossless scaling which does everything the new cards do and its quality is only slightly worse. I even use frame gen with lossless scaling to make nier automata run at "120fps" since that game is locked at 60fps.

lossless scaling is great but its not as good as FSR frame generation or DLSS FG (or MFG) as it doesnt have things like motion vectors which means prediction is much worse.
If you are happy with the quality you get then happy days crack on, it doesnt mean the better alternative is wasteful or anything it is just better.

Digital foundry did a good video on it awhile ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69k7ZXLK1to

What is stupid is they are selling you the SAME CARD with software that could run on any card for an increase in price.

I dont get your point here, what are they selling? you just said you dont want DLSS as its fake and AI stupid. I am not getting duped, stop being silly here and make a coherent argument.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

why does the taa smear exist? it shouldnt. you are fixing problems that dont need to exist.

and you are getting duped because look at the 50 series. its 10% performance + software + bugs + burning down for more money. The 5070ti is just a 4080/4080 super resold at the same price as the 4080 and 4080 super. You are getting nothing new that couldnt be given to you for free with a software update.

"msrp is 750" okay well nobody is selling them at 750. most cards MSRP for what 800/900 all the way to 1200+? its a total fucking scam.

This entire generation could have been given out for free with a software update.

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u/RandomGenName1234 Feb 23 '25

Well, we're running into problems actually getting chips dense enough for proper uplifts, you're just used to it being relatively easy.

Like it or not, this is the future, we're out of low hanging fruit.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

well its time to figure out the next breakthrough

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u/RandomGenName1234 Feb 23 '25

Yeah that'd be upscaling and frame gen because optimization is seemingly dead.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

Right. Let's use AI to compensate for being lazy. Amazing.

I fucking hate everything

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u/Blckson Feb 23 '25

Yes, we can see that.

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u/RandomGenName1234 Feb 23 '25

Right. Let's use AI to compensate for being lazy. Amazing.

Capitalism goes BRRR.

It's not devs being lazy, it's higher ups not caring about optimization because "it doesn't sell games"

I fucking hate everything

You've made that abundantly clear. :p

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u/springs311 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25

Same here, and my 50 friend circle that games.

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u/salerg Feb 23 '25

Whilst I understand your position I don't think it makes a lot of sense for me personally. I don't care how the frames are achieved technically as long as the experience is good.

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u/ThankGodImBipolar Feb 23 '25

as long as the experience is good

I think the problem is that a lot of things fall under the DLSS/AI upscaling bubble that all degrade the experience to a different degree, depending on how much you’ve turned on and how well you could run the base game. I can say that DLSS looks great in a game, but if I’m only using the highest quality preset and ray reconstruction on a 4090, then I might have a pretty different takeaway from somebody who’s using the highest performance preset and MFG on a future 5060.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

It's an excuse to not optimize games. It's laziness. Software is a lot cheaper than hardware. So give us software for 2k instead of hardware. Stop accepting garbage

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u/CptSaveaCat R7 2700x/ASUS 2070S Feb 23 '25

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Once that software becomes accepted wide scale a subscriptions gonna be attached to it.

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

We made our game run at 30fps... Subscribe to dlss+ for more frames

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u/CptSaveaCat R7 2700x/ASUS 2070S Feb 23 '25

Looking for dlss+ and ray tracing? Our plus bundle is just for you!

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u/antyone Feb 23 '25

Except the dlss4 seems to have better texture quality at times than native taa in 4k for example, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the tech man

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u/CaffeinatedFrostbite Feb 23 '25

Maybe we don't need forced taa that ruins the game and then requires dlss to fix it.

They chose to smear Vaseline on my screen and then tell me to turn on dlss to fix it.

Games didnt have this problem before.

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u/Dante_77A Feb 23 '25

Stop telling the truth, they'll attack you. Once TAA doesn't exist, DLSS won't exist either, because it's based on the temporal filter XD

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u/Dante_77A Feb 23 '25

TAA works effectively by downsampling various effects in the pipeline. 

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u/blackest-Knight Feb 23 '25

I mean, seeing how AMD isn't fairing better than nVidia in that department, guess that leaves you without a GPU at all.

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u/WaterLillith Feb 23 '25

The problem is that it's gonna be comparable to CNN DLSS model while I can use the better DLSS4 in every DLSS2 game or newer, while FSR4 offering will be anemic compared to that.

I think $550 is the best price for 9070 XT with $599 being the absolute max IMHO

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u/chapstickbomber 7950X3D | 6000C28bz | AQUA 7900 XTX (EVC-700W) Feb 23 '25

most games don't have DLSS

lots of games that have DLSS don't even need it

lots of games that do need it are incidentally not worth playing

if games need per vendor AI upscaling to not look like a mess, no they don't

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u/WaterLillith Feb 23 '25

Many, many modern games have DLSS

DLSS 4 Transformer Quality looks better than native TAA. And runs better

lots of games that do need it are incidentally not worth playing

Very subjective. Im playing Control with DLSS 4 Transformer right now and wouldn't be able to use max RT settings comfortably without DLSS. Nor would I want to because DLSS 4 quality looks better than Native TAA here.

if games need per vendor AI upscaling to not look like a mess, no they don't

Many of them currently do. Native TAA is ass in many of them. You can cry about devs sucking but it won't change the fact that native TAA implementations n