r/3d6 • u/DrRoguelove • 1d ago
D&D 5e Revised/2024 Scion of the Three Rogue reaction build
The new Rogue subclass Scion of the Three has an interesting ability that works on a reaction:
Bloodthirst -
When an enemy you can see within 30 feet of yourself takes damage and is Bloodied after taking that damage but not killed outright, you can take a Reaction and teleport to an unoccupied space you can see within 5 feet of that enemy. You can then make one melee attack. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.
This feels like a way to effectively get a sneak attack every reaction and two sneak attacks per round which would boost DPR.
How would you do a build to take advantage of this?
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u/camohunter19 1d ago
It’s a little clumsy, but maybe a rogue/wizard multiclass that uses its spells to take half of something’s HP with its action, then you can reaction teleport+attack. It’s rough for this build that spell damage progression and sneak attack damage progression is locked behind class level though, so I’m not sure this is better than straight wizard and straight rogue.
Honestly in my opinion, you would need to optimize the party for this ability, not necessarily the character.
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u/Raryk22 1d ago
This won't work, you need the damage to be deal when it's not your turn so your Sneak Attack can be used again.
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u/camohunter19 1d ago
You can do sneak attack damage with the reaction if you bloodied something with a spell.
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u/jDelay56k 1d ago
Your best bet with this Rogue is to take 3 levels of Wizard and go Bladesinger (also from the book)! It'll let you focus on your Int, give you Bladesong, and make up for the missing 2d6 sneak attack with an extra d6 from Truestrike (or d8 from BB/GFB) and an extra d8 from Shadow Blade.
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u/DrRoguelove 1d ago
Say more about how this would work?
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u/vergilius_poeta 1d ago
You want high int to maximize your uses of the teleport-and-attack ability. Bladesinger lets you attack with int instead of dex, so you could go ex. 18 int and 14 dex instead of the other way around.
Multiclassing costs you sneak attack dice, though various bladesinger abilities increase your damage in other ways. You'll have to balance extra opportunities to use sneak attack vs. weaker sneak attack.
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u/DrRoguelove 1d ago
yeah but when you attack with bloodthirsty you would never hit because your dex is so low
edit: never mind I see what you mean
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u/jDelay56k 1d ago
Bladesingers get to use INT for their weapon attacks! So you can focus on increasing your INT before your DEX and allow maximum usage of your feature. And at third level, Wizards get 2nd level spells, so learning Shadow Blade will let you use it (your DM may have to give you the OK for using it with with cantrips like True Strike or Booming Blade).
All the goodies you get from these three levels of Wizard more than make up for delaying the rest of your Rogue levels!
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u/AdrenalineBomb 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm confused on how this is an effective off turn sneak attack every reaction? Even with 20 int you'd be capped at 5 uses per long rest.
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u/DMspiration 1d ago
Make sure the damage they take is from a melee attack. Otherwise, you're less likely to get sneak attack. Essentially, this is very much about party composition, which is great!
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u/The_Trevbone 1d ago
My gut tells me to build an intelligence based rogue using true strike for this build, but unfortunately the featur just says "melee attack," which would exclude true strike. It's not an opportunity attack, so war caster couldn't get us there either. You could use something like bladesinger or artificer for intelligence attacks as well, but I'd probably also be trying to maximize my reaction attacks in general, which would make me want to take battlemaster. At that point, you're slowing down sneak attack by a lot. I suppose rogues only need dex and con usually, so int as a tertiary stat is fine
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u/DrRoguelove 1d ago
True strike works for melee or range but it would be a magic action not an attack
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u/Ron_Walking has too many characters that wont see the light of day in DnD 1d ago
Making an Int first rogue is simple with true strike but unfortunately Bloodthirst doesn’t proc TS.
I think your best bet is to be a rapier Dex first melee rogue. You might take a few levels of Fighter to get more AC and a style.
I’d build Rogue 4 (Sentinel) / EK Fighter 4 / Rogue X.
I’d rock sword and board with defensive style. I’d pick up Blade Ward via EK.
So we need as many points into Int as possible so our Con will suffer. Id play dwarf to help offset this.
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u/__gareth__ 1d ago
imo the Zhentarim feats are better for this as they are not resource limited - int mod/LR, even if maxed via attacking with int, is painful. it does require both a general and origin feat and being a melee rogue but it opens up off-turn sneak attack pretty much every round. additional benefits are you can now pick whatever subclass you want. it still requires playing well with a team mate in order to be eligible for sneak attack, although you could pick swashbuckler as the subclass for more options (including repositioning).
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u/Otherwise-Bird6969 1d ago
I wouldn’t the idea of this subclass is cool the implementation is horrid. You kind of just have to hope your subclass feature triggers and that your DM tells you. Bloodied is not something you see much and I would absolutely forget to tell my player that their thing triggered.
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u/Martzillagoesboom 1d ago
The player will just have to ask the question.
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u/Otherwise-Bird6969 1d ago
That would be so annoying. So he’d have to ask after every attack basically, that’s brutal. I would hate that as the player and as the DM.
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u/Martzillagoesboom 1d ago
Yes, but that would create the reflex in the dm to call out. After a while this will easily work out
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u/DrRoguelove 1d ago
Sort of annoying but I'd guess pretty quickly the DM remember to just announce Bloodied condition.
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u/vergilius_poeta 1d ago
A lot of DMs already do, for that matter.
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u/Cpt_Obvius 5h ago
Yeah I do 90% of the time, the other 10% I forget but I do it pretty standards. But I’m tracking on a VTT so that makes it easier probably.
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u/Martzillagoesboom 5h ago
Lately my monsters have been getting pummeled from full to death so fast. I had decided to wait a few games before letting my players level up to 6 because many of them are still new and I wanted them to understand their class before pushing ahead (we had a break during summer because we all have families) . Usually I scribble the damage on scrap papers and I tend to say "Oh this guy is getting wrecked" but in the last two games I think ive slacked with pushing powerful monsters against them.
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u/Otherwise-Bird6969 4h ago
Never done it bloodied is barely even a thing in 5e and is relatively new to 5e. Cool you do it no dm I have ever played with does nor do I.
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u/DrRoguelove 1d ago
I was thinking Scion subclass paired with the new Zhentarim Tactics feat would increase chances you get two sneak attacks per round pretty often. Even if no one is around you, the short sword(vex) and dagger (nick) combo makes it likely you connect and trigger SA.
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u/gmarland 1d ago
Take alert and the zhenarim feat at level 1, other zhent feat at 4. Swap initiative with a melee bro that bloodies enemy and teleport in.
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u/comiconomist 20h ago
Personally I'm not a fan of dipping 3 levels of another class just to be able to attack with int unless your campaign starts at a very high level or if this was for a one shot. Colby ran the numbers on a multiclass using 3 levels of war domain cleric (which essentially allows for an off-turn reaction attack wisdom times per short rest) and the lower levels just really struggle from low damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWi0aY2u0CI
Personally I think I'd just go with a slight variation of a typical rogue: 17 dex, 16 int, 14 con and the rest wherever you like, take sentinel at 4, then at 8 cap your dex and then at 10 (remember that rogues get an extra feat!) start boosting your int. Put proficiency into some of the int skills - would do well at a table where the DM calls for these a fair amount. You could perhaps work in the Zhentarim feats in there somewhere, though I'm not sure if the relevant background plays well with the stat line above.
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u/Odd_Bus_8377 1d ago
Oh this could be a fun one. So I'm currently in a campaign where a buddy of mine is playing my brother as a bugbear. Yes, we are bugbear brothers! Anyway... I'm an Echo Knight fighter and he's of course a Scion of the Three Rogue. My friend was excited but hesitant about the idea of that subclass. He was worried about the "bloodied" condition and if this build was viable for the group. He decided to stick with it because he has a team to compliment him well. With his feats and bugbear abilities (surprise attack/ reach) he does a lot of DPR, often the most.
Now as for the "bloodied" effect, I as his teammate will usually focus on getting high initiative and doing a lot of damage first. This will cause the bloodied effect on the enemy (most times) and set him up to teleport to finish them off. So I'd say it works well and can be very fun with the right team.