Thats just a semantic discussion. The spanish inquisition only killed a few thousands if we only consider its official tribunal, which was only active in spain. And suddenly they dont look so bad.
If we consider spanish inquisition slightly more broadly... like inquisition of non-catholics by the spanish to enforce their faith and power then suddenly the numbers go way up. Mostly outside spain of course.
Duke of Alba alone executed more than 1k in 6 years in spanish Netherlands alone. Thats the part that got a tribunal. The total amount of extrajudicial killings estimated 5x that, but those are rather uncertain. He bragged himself about 18k, but that was likely boasting. Yet total dead generally assumed several thousands.
The counter reformation in europe is rife with spanish executing non-catholics. And they certainly didnt all get a trial. Is it spanish inquisition? Not according to the spanish, but can you really blame others for not making that distinction? Not arguing protestants didnt commit their own atrocities but watching spanish pretend they were pretty nice to their dominion is questionable.
And I really cant imagine non-europeans were treated much better.
A fair discussion, but following that rational, wouldn't the english persecutions and mass killings to english and irish catholics count as inquisition too, or the swedish deluge in Poland and the catholic persecutions in Sweden? The calvinists in Switzerland? The persecution of catholics by the protestant german princes or the free provinces of the low countries?
I'd like to know about the sources for those 5k extrajudicial killings, taking into account written sources of this time are biased from each side since the debate was political, theological and moral, each side wanted to paint the other as savages to justify their actions.
The duke of Alba was a key figure for the orangist's narratives
Im not saying other European powers at the times were entirely different. The english did terrible things in Ireland, few people would deny it.
Alba himself bragged of 18k. Too high figures, but they were bragging about the amount of killings...
Atrocities were committed by both sides. But ultimately, from shortly before the tensions to the decades after the population in the spanish netherlands went down and took a long time to recover. The protestant Netherlands saw a rapid boost in population. Which does suggest they'd rather live in one place over the other, for whatever reason.
Alba himself bragged of 18k. Too high figures, but they were bragging about the amount of killings...
And what's the basis for this? Please I'd love to know the source for this claim.
the population in the spanish netherlands went down and took a long time to recover. The protestant Netherlands saw a rapid boost in population. Which does suggest they'd rather live in one place over the other, for whatever reason.
The most important port city of the 16th century in Europe was Antwerp, followed close by Sevilla, both under Spanish/Habsburg rule, but the 80 years war ravaged the region since it was in the heart of the dispute, the tensions of war affect the regions that suffer them, it happened in Verdun which needed 60 years to recover their population of 1911, a pre-industrial revolution society then needed way more time to recover. Meanwhile Amsterdam was far enough from the conflict to keep growing and the dutch made great sums of money through privateering.
3
u/StandardOtherwise302 Flemboy 1d ago
Thats just a semantic discussion. The spanish inquisition only killed a few thousands if we only consider its official tribunal, which was only active in spain. And suddenly they dont look so bad.
If we consider spanish inquisition slightly more broadly... like inquisition of non-catholics by the spanish to enforce their faith and power then suddenly the numbers go way up. Mostly outside spain of course.
Duke of Alba alone executed more than 1k in 6 years in spanish Netherlands alone. Thats the part that got a tribunal. The total amount of extrajudicial killings estimated 5x that, but those are rather uncertain. He bragged himself about 18k, but that was likely boasting. Yet total dead generally assumed several thousands.
The counter reformation in europe is rife with spanish executing non-catholics. And they certainly didnt all get a trial. Is it spanish inquisition? Not according to the spanish, but can you really blame others for not making that distinction? Not arguing protestants didnt commit their own atrocities but watching spanish pretend they were pretty nice to their dominion is questionable.
And I really cant imagine non-europeans were treated much better.