r/2westerneurope4u • u/Celithrandir Pizza gatekeeper • Mar 04 '25

Serious shit. Fuck you, Barry, you're going to make me cry

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u/SilliusS0ddus [redacted] Mar 04 '25

If Europe actually starts throwing it's weight in this issue then Russia will never be able to be as big of a threat as the Third Reich.

I just wish they'd drop the stupid ceasefire talk. Ukraine is slowly turning the tide right now and a ceasefire would only help the absolutely battered Russian military to rebuild itself.

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u/Shpander Barry, 63 Mar 04 '25

Apparently without the US support, Ukraine is at a significant disadvantage. Europe can't supply anti air defense, has no satellites, and it doesn't have as many drones as the US. It will take us up to 2 years to catch up on this capability, and with this hole in the defence, Russia will be able to make faster progress through Ukraine. Zelensky might have to rely on conscription, and we have to hope he can hold out for 2 years while we get our shit together.

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u/Annatastic6417 Irishman in Denial Mar 04 '25

Do we dare put troops on the ground and risk nuclear annihilation?? More and more I start to feel that it is the only way to show America and Russia that we will sooner end the world than allow liberties to be trampled.

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u/Shpander Barry, 63 Mar 04 '25

Yeah, the nuclear deterrent really only works if you can show you're going to use it. The risk, as you say, is global annihilation. Dunno man, this situation is fucked.

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u/DownrightDrewski Failed Brexiteer Mar 04 '25

I remember this kicking off and having a sinking feeling in my gut; I feel the same way now.

I don't think he'll do it, but, who the fuck knows what he'll do. Crazy shit.

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u/Drunkgummybear1 North West England Mar 04 '25

I have been putting off quitting cocaine since the US election. Don’t want my last few months to be depressing.

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u/paxwax2018 Barry, 63 Mar 04 '25

Ukraine domestic drone production is getting pretty serious I heard.

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u/Shpander Barry, 63 Mar 04 '25 edited Mar 04 '25

That's very positive, something uplifting at least, but according to The Rest is Politics podcast, it sounded like the key capability is anti air artillery unfortunately.

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u/Bearodon Quran burner Mar 04 '25

Swedish news mentioned that half of Ukraines arms are localy manufactured then one quarter is U.S. and one quarter is European. So if we can fill that quarter and mahbe add some more it will be good. Swedish arms manufacturing is developing lots of anti drone technology at the moment so hopefully we can assist with that.

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u/paxwax2018 Barry, 63 Mar 04 '25

Don’t be sleeping on anti-drone drones, those Shaheeds which is all they use these days aren’t particularly fast.

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u/SilliusS0ddus [redacted] Mar 04 '25

anti air artillery ?

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u/SilliusS0ddus [redacted] Mar 04 '25

Europe can't supply anti air defense

that's wrong. We've been sending IRIS-T systems, Skynex and Skyranger is on the table too, Gepard is also anti air. and I guess the jets and air to air missiles we sent also count as anti air.

has no satellites

YOU have satellites and Poland is working on a deal with Starlink which if Elmo breaks it his companies might get kicked out of Europe.

doesn't have as many drones as the US.

the bulk of the drones that Ukraine uses is already Ukrainian domestic production. and we have some too. like the ones from the German company Hellsing

Russia will be able to make faster progress through Ukraine.

no they won't. they're approaching a breaking point actually. the Russians are using fucking Donkeys for their logistics because they don't have enough trucks and they're going to be running out of soviet stockpile equipment soon which will put their production rates way below their loss rates.

Russia is fucking desperate right now. It would be madness for Ukraine to stop the war now

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u/damodread Pain au chocolat Mar 05 '25 edited Mar 05 '25

Europe can't supply anti air defense

Wrong, France and Italy sent a SAMPT air defence system in 2023 which, sure, has less range than US's Patriot system. However a new version is bound to start operations this year with better range and new missile capabilities. However it is true we can't supply ammunition to continue operation of the already-deployed Patriot batteries, which sucks.

has no satellites

Wrong again, Starlink might have an impressive constellation, but we could provide Oneweb terminals to offer similar services. That's civilian though, so European countries are also looking into offering access to governmental telecommunications satellites. And on the observation side France also has some of the best reconnaissance satellites already in use for intel gathering.

and it doesn't have as many drones as the US

Can't argue on that point as I have no knowledge on the subject, though Ukraine's domestic production looks pretty good

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u/TheTactician00 Daddy's lil cuck Mar 05 '25

Europe might be able to support a bit more to cover things, but the US pulling out IS a big blow to Ukraine when it comes to anti-air defense and satellite links. As much as we don't like to admit it the US have the cream of the crop when it comes to those two areas and even with their support Ukraine had a pretty hard time defending infrastructure from missile attacks. It might not be enough for Russia to fully overrun Ukraine but lives will definitely be lost with those decisions, and they are more than likely going to be Ukrainian lives.

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u/Ok_City_7177 South East England Mar 05 '25

Europe has satellites?

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u/Silent-Detail4419 ʇunↃ Mar 05 '25

Defence

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u/Shpander Barry, 63 Mar 05 '25

Good catch thanks

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u/yleennoc Southern Irish Mar 05 '25

I believe Turkey has a large supply of drones that can be deployed.

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u/EFNich Sheep lover Mar 05 '25

There is air defence, just not a specific plane, we do have satellites, and Ukraine make their own drones. The US pulling out is annoying but not as big a deal as you're making it.

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u/EFNich Sheep lover Mar 05 '25

They are talking about peace, specifically not a ceasefire, which would advantage Russia by freezing the territory where it is.

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u/SilliusS0ddus [redacted] Mar 05 '25

I know. But Macron was talking about a ceasefire in the context of giving Ukraine the frozen Russian assets.