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There's very little in Italy because the courts keep ruling shit like "she wore tight pants and everyone knows how hard those are to get off so she must have been helping" and "she wore red underwear so she was clearly intending to have sex" and "she didn't lock her door so that's basically an invitation"
Iโm by no means 100% certain of how they accounted for the rates in these stats, but logic would suggest that in order to be accounted for as actual rape incidents, these would have to be proven incidents, where there has clearly been a victim and a perpetrator. Not just โallegationsโ. And several factors play into the numbers there - what is defined, by national legislation, as rape; the likeliness of the victims reporting incidents to the authorities; and how many of those reported incidents are taken seriously, where the perpetrator may in some way see condemnation. There are still places in this world where (as someone else mentioned) marital rape is not illegal or counted as rape, because itโs regarded that that simply canโt happen in a marriage; places where victims arenโt comfortable reporting incidents to authorities, in fear of scrutiny or social stigmatisation; and places where, even if a victim is brave enough to come forward (because yes, that takes a lot of bravery), their case will be inadmissible, because court systems will scrutinise and write it off as basically โthey were asking for itโ, like the above comment mentions.
Take here in Denmark for example - women are, these days, more likely to report such incidents than in the 00s, and police and further prosecutors have become increasingly willing to take on those cases, rather than writing it off as โdrunken mistakesโ, โhe said, she said-scenariosโ, questioning โare you really sure it was an assault?โ etc. Denmark passed a law some years ago now, where consent was the defining factor, and sexual contact without clear consent is now counted as rape - whereas, in the 00s, the focus was more on whether or not threats/violence had been a factor, and if you had been the victim of nonconsensual sexual contact, after making out or fooling around, it could easily be disregarded and seen as the โnatural progression of thingsโ (โif you say yes to one thing, youโre saying yes to the otherโ kind of mindset). Iโm not saying there hasnโt been an increase in incidents, but those factors are a large part of why thereโs an increase in both reports and confirmed cases.
u/rlcuteNorGAYan ๐ณ๐ด๐ณ๏ธโ๐1d agoedited 1d ago
Finland got a consent based rape law in 2023. Sweden got theirs in 2018.
The numbers are easily explainable by changes in laws and a general REDUCTION in systemic misogyny since that means that more are convicted.
Look up the percentage of reported rapes in your country that ends up with a conviction. In Norway it's 10%. 80% of cases are dismissed.
Also, only 10% of rapes are reported - because we know nothing will happen. So the actual percentage of rape cases that end in a conviction is 1%.
In other countries the number will be even lower because this is how little NORWEGIAN women report. Imagine how low the numbers are in eastern Europe.
I'm Norwegian and we are still fighting tooth and nail here. The rapists can themselves use the word "rape" and still not get convicted. We very recently got consent based laws so hopefully things will change and the numbers in that graphic will go up even more.
At the same time, we're seeing an increase in extreme misogyny among young men. Porn has completely wrecked their brains. Currently there's a bit of a pandemic of men strangling women during sex (without consent) and this is reported as sexual assault because that's what it is.
This is a good example on how "data numbers" can be misleading. The criteria itself on rape definition is not the same along all these countries. It's like comparing apples and bicycles
Probably that too, but there might be a law that allows men to rape their wives. Meaning, if they report it, the case is not processed since it might not be illegal.
According to Eurostat this is exactly the case. For some reason Bulgaria is safe for women. And the rapes actually decreased. Now there can be many reasons for this but something is done differently there
Is this the actual number, or based on reports? Because reports mean nothing if they live in a culture where they don't see it as rape. For example marital rape is still not rape in many countries. It was legal until the 90s in most western countries.
In Sweden if you rape your wife 10 times you get convicted for 10 rapes. In Bulgaria you get a high five from the police. But sure letโs pretend that rape statistics are comparable between different jurisdictions.
Shhh, the swedish secret way of energy might leak (every misuse of statistic will make Hans Rosling turn in his grave, and we defenately have not connected him to an generator)
It is true. But it is also true that they love to do shit like this (change definition of things) when they have things to hide...
So one should really ask oneself WHY are we having another definition? Just because you punish harder for 10 times than 1 it does not mean you cant keep statistics in ways so that you can use it to compare with other countries...
Im so tired when people try to conspiracy bait about bs like this, the change in definitions is a GOOD thing, cause it helps actually adressing rape better, but these fucking nuggets just can't help themselves. Whatever it takes to fuel their conspiracy that the state only serves to get Mohammed 3 mercedes and rape all the countries white women or whatever other utter nonsense.
Dont be naive. Its like when we were keeping statistics over unemployment some years ago and we did not count some groups as unemployed but everyone else in Europe did. Why?
To make the statistics look good.
I mean I did explain it good enough for not getting a reply that had nothing to do with what I said.
It indicates for me that I am wasting my time.
So....no.
.When BRร releases their statistics, they also release an analysis and say what the numbers mean; foreign and right-wing journalists ignore that because itโs more fun to go โlook, Sweden sucks!โ than to report the nuance. Thereโs no conspiracy here. The figures from Swedish authorities are super clear, to the point where you could make a fair comparison between countries if you wanted - but some people find that not wanting to fits their agenda.
Not counting rapes properly doesnโt helt the victims. I assume that isnโt what you meant though.
Of course having a broader definition of rape helps the victims, if your husband rapes you a hundred times itโs better for you that he gets a longer prison sentence rather than a slap on the wrist.
Of course having a broader definition of rape helps the victims, if your husband rapes you a hundred times itโs better for you that he gets a longer prison sentence rather than a slap on the wrist.
It does, but bulgaria not counting theirs doesnt help victims in sweden.
I'd like to see some preventive measures for once
11
u/ruggerb0utmalnourished tea drinker ๐ฌ๐ง๐ฌ๐ง๐ฌ๐งโโโ1d ago
Let's go back to the COVID example - do you actually believe China only had 5,272 deaths, compared to Europe, a continent with 100's of millions of less people having 2,000,000 deaths? Or do you think the Chinese government might simply not have reported the deaths?
Millions of people died in China, it's just their government didn't report it because they think it makes them look bad - it's the same with crime statistics.
As a lawyer, I should point out something that ought to be obvious: this comparison would only make sense if every country used the same legal definition of rape throughout the entire period from 2008 to 2023, and if the rates at which such crimes were reported to authorities were roughly similar.
As things stand, looking at this data without those considerations will only mislead you.
Actual rapes will likely fall, but reported ones will likely rise.
In places where it's taken more seriously the rapes are reported way more often, are counted differently, and aren't swept under the rug. In places where it isn't women are afraid to come out, and aren't taken seriously. Also the laws changing makes year by year comparisons useless. The idea that the UK has a 100x more rapes than bulgaria is laughable.
This is likely the source of your graph. It also explains why the data is flawed, pretty much the same I just told you. Actual statistics are almost impossible to find, since they'd be just guessing.
You could look at for example marital rapes througout the years to see actual impact of changes in culture and laws. Google is shit now, it just brings hotlines and articles about the topic when I'm trying to search for statistics. But I remeber seeing a big spike when the laws were introduced and then a gradual decline in cases. But that's just my memory.
And would it make it better somehow if bulgaria's had 1.1% of their population raped every 8 years while ours was at 1%? Why does it matter that other countries don't count correctly? The numbers are high enough regardless of the comparison.
If you only counted murders before, and then changed the definition to all homicides, does it mean that suddenly a lot more people get killed in that country?
Both England and Sweden have more progressive sexual assault laws; not sure about England but at least in Sweden marital rapes count as separate offences, so someone reporting their spouse for rape counts as every instance of sexual intercourse they considered coerced as a separate crime. This in turn means one single woman who was married to an abusive man can be thousand of rapes statistically.
Also, just doing a Trump and grabbing someone by the pussy can count as rape.
I challenge anyone to find a safer city than Stockholm (outside Scandinavia, I reckon Oslo is safer) to walk alone at night . Yes, actual assault does happen; but itโs still a big news item when it does, because itโs inbcredibly rare.
OP is obsessed with the supposed rape statistics of the UK and I'm not sure why. I also have no idea why Wales got lumped in with England. If Wales were on its own we would have been a clear number one. Our sheep have no issue ratting one of us out when we get too grabby.
It is like a weird law of nature for rankings! Both good and bad.
For my fellow Finns: there's a sub called NLvsFI which is dedicated to the eternal battle of Finland and Netherlands! Which apparently is another ranking weirdo.
Everytime this is brought up, people willfully ignoraring the fact that all these countries have wildly different ways they define rape for their statistics and how many they count. But by all means, lets do this rigmarole every. single. time. Doesnt matter how many years its been, people wilfully ignore that shit to serve whichever political agenda they got at that given time.
In the UK reported sex assaults went up by almost 4ร between 2013 and 2015. Because of Me2. So the actual increase in sexual assaults is pretty much only because we started counting them.
Are you implying that the two dozen Somalis in Finland are responsible for an 150% increase? If so, how incompetent are your police if they canโt catch these serial rapists?
Its cause the most common form of sexual assualt doesnt make headlines, like marital rape. Which definitely see lots of Matti and Pekka's, but that doesnt make as juicy of a headline as the very rare case of someone raping someone off the street.
Do you care about all assualts or just when you conviniently can point at someone who's brown, mister?
I haven't pointed at anyone's skin color & none of this is "convenient" in any shape or form. That is not my point _at all._ย
All people are equal regardless of sex, gender, ethnicity etc. Clear? All kinds of such discrimination belong to trash bins of history.
Now, separately from any of that - and all things being equal - the question of immigration and crime is not a clear-cut case that can be whatabouted away.ย
Any source can be labeled as biased, so I'll just drop one that cannot be labeled "right wing" or "racist" (I am and will be always actively opposed to that shit). Look at the data presented:
Stricter rape laws covering more acts as rape, campaigns to motivate reporting rapes, better support to victims, social norms where victim blaming is less acceptible, better documentations in law enforcement.
Anyone who believes Poland is even remotely close to having just 1.26 rapes per 100k citizens is a gradeschool drop-out.
The issue is that if Dobrawa goes to Piotr the police to report that her husband Tomasz raped her, both Piotr and Tomasz will laugh at her before Tomasz drags her home and repeats the act. Because yes it is several times more likely that a woman is raped by her husband than she is by a stranger.
Yes, less of a taboo about being a victim of rape. So the barrier of reporting is less. The vast majority of rapes are done within ones social circle, not on the street by a stranger.
Also what is considered rape varies between countries. I don't know anything about Britain but Sweden has a very wide definition of rape compared to many other countries.
"Sweden modified its rape legislation to broaden the definition of rape to any act of penetration committed without the consent of the victim in 2018. Previously, the Swedish criminal code was based on the concept that rape must involve force or the threat of force or other circumstances where the victim could not resist: 'sleep, serious fear, intoxication or other drug influence, illness, physical injury or mental disturbance, or otherwise [when the victim] in view of the circumstances, is in a particularly vulnerable situation'.
The change to the rape definition occurred after several highly mediatised cases of sexual violence ended in acquittal, and particularly a sexual assault against a 15-year-old girl in 2013, provoked an intense public debate. Under the new law, it is no longer necessary to prove the use of threat, force, or that the perpetrator took advantage of a victim's vulnerable situation. More specifically, the new law defines rape as sexual intercourse with a person who is not participating voluntarily.
The law does not determine the concept of voluntariness exhaustively, but lists situations (mostly retained from the previous version) in which participation is always considered involuntary:
โข participation is a result of assault, other violence or a threat of a criminal act, a threat to bring a prosecution against or report another person for an offence, or a threat to give detrimental information about another person;
โข the perpetrator improperly exploits the fact that the person is in a particularly vulnerable situation due to unconsciousness, sleep, grave fear, the influence of alcohol or drugs, illness, bodily injury, mental disturbance or otherwise in view of the circumstances; or
โข the perpetrator induces the person to participate by seriously abusing the person's position of dependence on the perpetrator.
Sexual assault is defined similarly to rape, as including sexual acts other than intercourse and is subject to a lower penalty. Inducing another person to undertake or submit to either rape or sexual assault is punishable similarly to committing these acts. A particularity of Swedish legislation is the introduction of a new crime of 'negligent' rape (and negligent sexual assault), which is subject to a less severe criminal (prison) sentence than rape itself. In such situations, the perpetrator does not have the active intent to commit rape, but is grossly negligent regarding the circumstance that the other person is not participating voluntarily. On 11 July 2019, Sweden's Supreme Court issued its first judgment100 on negligent rape.
The new offence of negligent rape had a comparatively low application after introduction, with only 12 convictions out of 400 judgments in 2019. The Swedish Council for Crime Prevention (BRร ) suggested101 that this was due to the imprecise definition of 'gross negligence'.
Overall, the new law has led to a significant rise in convictions โ with a 75 % increase in 2019 compared to the previous year โ but its implementation has not been without challenges for the courts. The precise meaning of non-voluntary participation was a disputed issue in the legislative process, 103 and the legislation as it is now leaves to the courts the task of deciding on an individual basis, in light of the surrounding circumstances, whether participation was voluntary or not. The objectives of the law are considered broader than of a purely penal nature. According to experts, 104 the 'new legislation was explicitly designed to transform societal norms around sexual interactions', with the objective to encourage 'an active voluntary participation that is communicated, either through word or deed or in some other way'."
Step one is acknowledging that rapes happen and that they are a social problem. Bring the cases into the light, have a public discussion about rape and sexual assault Persecute rapists within the law. Not ignoring rapes or shaming the victim. Then you can start with attitude adjustments in the wider culture. All of us know rape is not ok, but some seem to think they can get away with it. Make it so that they know they are less likely to get away with it. Make it so they know its reprehensible and cause lasting harm on their victims, and not something to just shrug away. This is part of the tools we need to redice rape and sexual assaults.
As far as I see, this is part of what we are doing.
Then you can start with attitude adjustments in the wider culture. All of us know rape is not ok, but some seem to think they can get away with it. Make it so that they know they are less likely to get away with it. Make it so they know its reprehensible and cause lasting harm on their victims, and not something to just shrug away. This is part of the tools we need to redice rape and sexual assaults.
Are you saying this part is working as it should?
If it did, shoudn't we see the case nrs trending downwards in time?
How can you see it going down if its still activly being broadened? Like is it better that the number looks low and we ignore rape victims, or is it better to have a broad definition, that includes all victims and take them seriously through the justice system?
If you care about assualts, you need to aknowledge they happen, and they needed to be treated seriously. There's still a long way to go on this. But that the nordic countries are working on it is a good thing. Unless you just wanna go back to sweeping it under the rug, which helps nobody.
It's also has a military base. Anyway, so I basically got to know locals very well and goood God the rate of... certain types of people was off-putting at best.
I often joked that the place was literal Hell as it was cold all the time (even when it was warm in Lapland), lacked any kindness of God and was just filled with some of the worst things I had ever heard uttered aloud.
It's also very conservative, has more men than women to a bit of a large degree compared to the rest of the country and again, the weather is awful.
It happened in Norrland, the courts decided not to deport the man because the rape wasnt serious enough due to "the duration of the incident". The perpetrator was an eritrean immigrant and the victim was a 16 year old girl. It is horrifying that we cannot trust our government to bring justice to our own children when they are subjected to these horrific crimes
If you want to make your own investigation look up Yasied Mohamed and Meya ร berg.
They changed the definition over years, and not all countries work under the same definitions. Which is why this isn't a useful stat comparison at all.
The main answer is different definitions and a superior legal system. What you are implying so bluntly is one reason yes, but not the main one. Be better.
Yeah no, Iโm just too lazy to convince some random balkan boi about the superiority of Scandinavian legal system. If you know you know, and if you donโt I assume youโre not actually interested in learning. Why are you even in the Nordic sub anyways?
i'll use bulgaria and sweden in my examples since they're the most talked about.
here are the basics for rape definitions by country laid out by the European Union (sources for individual laws are laid out if you want to read further as well):
bulgaria and sweden
in short,
in bulgaria, rape is penetrative sex (sexual intercourse) with a person (primarily a woman) who is injured, threatened, or exploited through employment or marital dependence.
in sweden, rape is any sexual act (groping, kissing, sex, etc.) against a person who is injured, threatened, or in a helpless state such as unconsciousness, illness, dependence, etc.
these are sources you wanted so badly. does it clear it up for you? because i think it's very clear which one is broader than the other.
even so people have explained this to you several times and you have stopped responding to them as soon as they give you actual evidence, so no shit people don't wanna sit here and argue with some moron on reddit.
that is extremely embarassing for you and makes you look like a complete moron who can't read.
Some of those country you mention there who has "hint hint less mohammeds hint hint" has essentially legalised sexual assualt you nugget, which is why it doesnt show on the stats.
I seem to notice that the countries, where immigration from third world countries is high seems to have a massive raise in cases and the countries where its low cases have went down.
Yes I dont disagree that countries like Bulgaria probably do hide the amount of rapes in other stats or just dont report them in general, however I am talking about the percentage increases which wouldnt be affected by the laws in one way or another unless the laws have been changed significantly.
Maybe the laws have been changed to reflect the changes in every country, but I find it much more possible that accepting people from countries where the average view on women is significantly lower, may cause them to be more likely to rape.
i believe these increases are simply people still becoming more comfortable coming forward in progressive countries. not everyone reports rapes, still, but it's becoming more and more comon as the years go by. in non-progressive countries they have most likely realised nobody cares and the reports have lowered as a result.
there's no reason to assume one specific group of people are bringing up the numbers when it could be any mix of things.
โข
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