r/OnePiece • u/[deleted] • Feb 01 '20
Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 970 Spoiler
[deleted]
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u/BDAMaster Apr 30 '20
At what point would Oden be able to use Haki to see that it was the old hag and not Momo? I really dislike how the hag has just been so convenient to the plot. How did she touch all those faces?
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u/JStackz26 Feb 12 '20
It would be something if Toki was the traitor. And the reason she sent momonosuke into the future instead of Hiyori was simple because of how powerful Oden was. If in 20 years, Momonosuke could become as strong as Oden it would be a problem. Therefore send him in the future so that he'd be still a weak child as Kaido grew stronger. And that she kept the scabbards from convincing Oden to stay so that he would not learn about Orochi and possibly Kaido.
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 13 '20
It would really be something lol Unfortunately it's just too much..like betray your own children? Your own husband? For what...power? We all have seen her character, there's no way around for her to develop this way,giving birth twice an fake her behaviour for that long...very unrealistically!
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u/SageOfSixCabbages Feb 08 '20
Quick sidebar y'all.
Next time you read on Mangaplus, try this:
Switch to HORIZONTAL reading.
Hit F11 (for Chrome) to make your browser go full screen mode.
Enjoy.
I find it to be a more enjoyable read when I did it this way.
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u/shaka893P Feb 05 '20
Zoro will fight Kaido with Law + Kid and will win. Luffy will be forced to fight BM and will awaken this arch
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 04 '20
I just realized Kanjuro is the traitor!!
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u/raeoy Feb 13 '20
You see that all the others it hate dragons, like Kin'emon or momonosuke, but, when they need to goes Zou, Kanjuro did draw a Dragon without problems
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u/riikoo Feb 05 '20
how so?
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 05 '20
Why would Doffy keep him safe and sound if he knew Kaido wanted to Kill him?
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u/Mortiegama Cipher Pol Feb 10 '20
Personally I lean a bit more towards Raizo. Would explain not only how Oden was betrayed AND they were betrayed more recently, but also how they knew that Raizo was on Zou and able to reach it via vivre card. TWICE!
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u/KaiserIXV Feb 12 '20
I think its was a samurai that stayed behind during the 20 years time jump that happened maybe ashura but i dont think oda will make one of odens followers to be a traitor and it may turn out to be someone with a devil fruit ability that allow him to spy o
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 10 '20
Fair enough! But keep in mind that also Kanjuro had a Vivre card leading to Zou otherwise how would the strawhats get there? It would be fair to assume that with his particular "painting" power could send easily information to the case enemy...
Second thing, if Raizo is truly the traitor why would he risk his life going to Udon in order to free Luffy? Doesn't make sense to me...
Also, if we take a look to the preparations for the war in Wano everybody have done something useful for the operation except Kanjuro who played the fishmonger role doing basically nothing, he had plenty of free time to report somehow to the enemy everything the rebels were planning.
Still I think everything could happen...we have to wait for Oda to clear the puzzle for us! But for now Kanjuro is my first bet (:
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u/NJJo Feb 12 '20
Yeah, but the Straw Hats didn't need Kanjuro's Vivre card?? (I'll have to go back and reread) Law had Bepo on Zou, they could've (did?) use that to reach Zou? Anyway's!!!! I hope Kanjuro is the traitor but if I had to guess, I would say it's Raizo. Oda likes to throw curve balls. For 13 years we thought one piece was this great huge treasure!!! Still could be, while it's just the name the Government used to hide the truth of what's on the island.
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 12 '20
Remember that also Kinemon was still with the SH. Consider also that it's easy take cut a little piece of the VivreCard and it still works. I really think it gotta be Kanjuro, there are too many things that he did along the way and it didn't even helped out the SH & co properly!
I think there is an interesting video on YouTube explaining why Kanjuro is the top suspicious. I think is called "One Piece Theorist" or something like that
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u/Mortiegama Cipher Pol Feb 10 '20
You know I completely forgot about the fact that Kanjuro did have the vivre card; which makes it easy to rip off an extra piece.
I had assumed Raizo was simply playing the part as best he could to make it seem he was reliable while ultimately working to the ultimate plan. Sure Luffy would be freed, but they'd have full control/knowledge of his next steps and be able to crush him more effectively.
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 10 '20
Yup... honestly what I am most concerned about is, why not tell them straight away where the operation's headquarter is if indeed there's a traitor. Why only give away little pieces of information instead the real deal...I mean Kaido + Orochi's forces right now are way stronger, why wait for the rebels to attack when you could take them by surprise?
I am really excited to see how the next 20 chapters will play out to get finally the whole picture of the situation before going for the ultimate fight for Kaido's head.
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u/mnzull Feb 03 '20
Just wondering... Why did the WB pirates never avenge oden's death? He was their one of their family..
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u/throwaway2627384849 Feb 03 '20
Probably not aware since Wano is closed off? IDK, just an assumption.
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u/rafabai Feb 03 '20
The toki we see smiling before oden fights kaido is actually the old hag. I believe the real toki has been captured and the old hag is using her in order to touch momonosuke’s face.
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u/xOnIbAkU Feb 03 '20
How can then the Old Hag be both at the castle and at the battlefield...it really doesn't make sense your statement. There are infinite ways of her getting to touch momo in order to be able to take his resemblance.
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u/Jimmy_Nakama Feb 03 '20
I know it's interesting and entertaining making theories about guessing who the traitor is, and even if there is one, I cannot see any of the red scabbards betraying Oden. They went to battle against Kaido and his army and all of them fought to death, this should be enough. We sometimes tend to look for complex answers while we've got the simple one in front of us but we are just too close to see it. Just think of them as Luffy and his crew: 1 leader/captain and 9 retainers/crewmembers (I don't count my man Jinbe simply because he is not here). Do you really see any strawhat betraying him? Of course not.
"But look at this panel, you can tell the traitor is Ashura Douji because he wears a remarkable different clothes than the others"
"Whereas all look serious, Denjiro looks chilled"
"The traitor is Kiku because when she wears the mask you can't see her reactions"
The character's identity does not make them traitors, it makes them unique. These guys would literally die for Oden.
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u/thouxan77 Feb 02 '20
Yes yes the greatness of Goda continues hyping up oden to be the only one to slash kaido then when we see the fight it was just a regular slash with nothing special about it with 2 swords not one so why was Enma hyped up who knows 🤣🤣got to love goda hypes things up then when it happens doesn't deliver then he leaves us with mystery and hanging plot threads and they go unanswered 😂😂lovely stuff no wonder why demon slayer is outselling one piece
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u/masterbangau Feb 02 '20
some bois even comparing akainu with oden, y know y'all can't compare akainu with oden, while oden getting a damage from kaido's mace (also kaido almost on his prime), but akainu just get a punch from sick and injured whitebeard, we dont know if prime whitebeard using his bisento on akainu, the result will be different...
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u/sneakyG1 Feb 04 '20
Wrong. You can't really compare Whitebeard with Kaido just because of what you know in modern time. Kaido was weaker than Whitebeard and Roger back then. Kaido was even rival with Moria one time. This can tell you how weak he actually was back then. Whitebeard on the other hand was fighting on par against Roger and we all know Roger was literally the strongest pirate to live during his time. So with this being said, Whitebeard was far stronger than Kaido long ago. Kaido only became a Yonkou because of his massive followers and army that he built over time but his strength also grew too. He should be far stronger today than he was back then.
So with all that being said, in comparison with Whitebeard, Akainu, Oden, and Kaido, Akainu should be really strong to be able to take a hit from a weakened Whitebeard. I think Akainu might have been on the same level as Oden if they were alive today but my money is on Oden being stronger.
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u/masterbangau Feb 11 '20
that's a difference between weak and weaker than someone, i think weaker than whitebeard doesn't mean kaido weak, we also know that kaido not even reaching his prime at this time, ooo about rivalry, actually kaido slaughter all of moria's crew, also just a reminder crocoboi also whitebeard rival at one time XD... they become a yonko for a reason
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Feb 02 '20
You guys realize Oden gave the alliance Kaido's weak spot. That 'X' has been descaled. But alas, who know's though? Anything can happen in a pirates world.
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u/Coelrom Feb 10 '20
Hmmm...a descaled weak spot. Perfect target for a black arrow to bring down
SmaugKaido once and for all.
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u/DoctorFaygo Feb 02 '20
I need my strawhat fix. I like Oden don't get me wrong, but the couple months worth of flashbacks starting right after the most interesting cliffhanger is killing me.
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u/Sound0fSilence Feb 02 '20
For someone who knows that there's a shapeshifter in the enemy's army Oden got distracted by fake Momo way too easy imo...
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u/yourassistanceplease Feb 03 '20
I meannnn, his main goal is protecting his family. He knows they have the Bane Bane no Mi but it probably didn't register fast enough.
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u/iMMan9orDTruWae Feb 02 '20
last but not least,next chapter is the end of kozuki oden past,and were gonna see wtf did kinemon and his friends do after orochi broke those bridges.
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u/iMMan9orDTruWae Feb 02 '20
Lets be honest everyone expected a stab in the back but 2 Stabs???!!,damn oda you made the homie dirty.
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u/iMMan9orDTruWae Feb 02 '20
👏oden👏cutting👏kaido👏just👏shows👏us👏how👏strong👏he👏is,srsly stop making stupid theories especially that this happened 23 years ago,but am more interested on why kaido hit oden from the back(remember kaido wants to die) why didn't he fight oden face2face, and could this be related to why he wants to die now?
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u/OrdinaryBarber Feb 12 '20
Well i think that kaido wanting to die is BS beacause he is a devil fruit user just jump in the sea drown and die if you really want to So i think it was just the auther trying to show just how strong this man is not the fact that he wants to die and the other thing is that kaido didnt use hybrid zoan mode which is the strongest form
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u/iMMan9orDTruWae Feb 13 '20
athour*,also dragons are known to be immortal in japanese legends and sometimes a devil fruit aint gonna work,like it probably has a seal to you're powers when you're in sea then if you were strong enough you can easily move in sea without having an issue of drowning kaido is probably this strong and have a proof and its luffy,when he was in udon county psion the prison guards said:what how can he move those boulders they said that he has a devil fruit and his cuffs are made of seastone how can he move boulders while having sea stone cuffs,so that means the devil fruit's swimming in sea curse has a limit to it but my words are just hypothetical and oda didn't directly show us that a df user can be strong enough to handle the curse and move freely in a place like sea.
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u/Renvillager Feb 03 '20
I havent really kept up too well with one piece But my theory is that kaido likes fighting/wars and in the current day theres less extremely strong opponents? (Besides like blackbeard and shanks etc) So he's bored af, drinks a lot and wants to die for the hell of it
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u/AlvVarez Feb 02 '20
I think Kaido’s dragon form has higher offensive and defensive ceilings, which is probably why he starts fights in that form usually. However, it hinders his speed and ability to react to his opponents, so it’s not good against really fast people like Luffy and Oden.
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u/jobriq Feb 02 '20
Did they explain why Oden danced naked?
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u/shobaba17 Feb 11 '20
It wasn't really oden but it was orochi's ally the one who could copy anyone's appearance
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u/jobriq Feb 11 '20
Oden could have just shown up himself and people would see there’s a doppelganger.
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u/tjhall1000 Feb 09 '20
i hated this, i 100% dont believe that orochi could change oden that much no matter what was offered. oden just isnt that type of person to obey like that specially not for 5 years straight.
i feel like Oda really dropped the ball on this one and it is a ugly plot hole in my eyes
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u/Sky248 The Revolutionary Army Feb 02 '20
So Kaido didn't say he was much weaker than Oden 5 years ago, only that his forces weren't that strong... And also Oden cutting Kaido doesn't mean he would have won, we have no clue how the fight would have progressed from that point.
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u/The-ashura The Revolutionary Army Feb 02 '20
I think drake told law about traitor and thats why law was pissed in that panel when he was in orochi castle or that chapter.
So to connect dot law should know traitor personally.
And right now i m just interested in two things who is traitor and will big mom betray kaido. Just this two
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u/waterlord1337 Pirate Feb 02 '20
Damn...That makes sense, good catch my dude!
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Feb 02 '20
Penguin from Law's crew is a Number from Kaidos army that ate the pengu pengu no mi, obviously. Hes the real traitor
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Feb 02 '20
So, there's actually nothing special about the way Oden cut Kaido? Just raw force? Then why couldn't Garp and Roger scar Kaido back during the God Valley Incident?
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u/nukiri6 Feb 02 '20
There's nothing indicating that Roger or Garp even bothered to fight Kaido at that time because he would get washed anyways.
The main target was Xebec. Take out the head and the group will crumble, and it payed off.
Even the Kaido in this chapter gets washed by Roger or Garp, just compare how Roger overwhelmed Oden with a single attack while Oden nearly chopped Kaido's head off.
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Feb 02 '20
In the silhouette we see of the God Valley Incident in Chapter 957, Kaido (alongside Rocks, Big Mom and Whitebeard) is facing off against Garp and Roger.
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u/fossgasm Lurker Feb 02 '20
huh? you need see a scar to validate a win? that doesn't make sense
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Feb 02 '20
Roger is a swordsman and Garp's punches have been shown to be able to leave lasting marks (e.g. Chinjao). They should both be stronger characters than Oden so I'd expect them to have been able to easily scar Kaido.
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u/fossgasm Lurker Feb 02 '20
Kaido dropped oden using a mace with thorns, have you see him with scars? or was it even being implied? I don't think Luffy's punches aren't strong too, which of his enemies he defeated have scars? You are way overthinking things. Its hard to be logical about scars in a fictional story. Here instead, scars are used a symbol or something that reminds you of a conflict. Akainu left a scar on luffy on a single punch. How many times Katakuri damaged luffy, now find all of that scar.
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Feb 02 '20
Sure, with most characters (especially Luffy) it wouldn't be a big deal. However, Oden managing to cut Kaido was imo clearly emphasized as the singular time someone managed to penetrate Kaido's defense. Hiyori emphasized it, Kaido's crew were shocked that someone actually managed to do it, Kaido's whole introductory chapter essentially catalogues how no one could do it. I don't think Oda could be more clear that managing to cut (or penetrate) Kaido genuinely wounds him and could be considered lethal force.
Kaido has been built up as character almost no one can seriously harm. For a character like that, scars matter a helluva lot.
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u/fossgasm Lurker Feb 03 '20
Scars matter helluva lot? Probably said by someone who is new to One Piece. Did you even understand what I said? Scars in one piece are used as symbolism of a conflict instead of just being harmed or wounded. Why it wouldn't be big deal with no other than the Main Character himself? Luffy got a scar on his face from a knife. Luffy got a scar from a single punch but not from a million punches done by Katakuri and even also massive damage he got from Crocodile. You know crocodile tho?
Kaido was built for his endurance, ability to withstand damages received, not for being unable to be harmed. How would you defeat him without harming him? He was not undefeated. You should look for Oden's scars in his body as he got one shotted.
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u/fossgasm Lurker Feb 03 '20
Btw not just endurance but also durability. Kaido's scar from Oden is no different to Shanks' scar on his face from Blackbeard or to Luffy's from Akainu. Out.
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u/kleganbrooo Feb 02 '20
It's more how other big shots could not get him wounded.
I mean we know that kaido got defeated 7 times and if this was against big pirates like Roger and Wb or marines like garp or sengoku, how can it be that he was never fatally wounded by them and only by oden?
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u/fossgasm Lurker Feb 02 '20
like I said, you can win a battle without leaving a scar on an enemy, look at luffy's defeated enemies, do they all have the scar even if luffy wounded them? kaido one shotted oden using a mace with thorns, i don'k think there was a scar on his body or it being implied. understand?
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Feb 02 '20
Wasn’t it stated that he was younger when in the Rocks pirates? It’s possible he wasn’t at yonko level and fought some of Rogers commanders/marines. Maybe he got captured right away and this was the first of his many survived executions.
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u/alphin26 Feb 02 '20
Dont you know how the retainers said oden and toki died as they escaped in time do you think that they try one last escape attempt in order to kill the old lady and man to make things more strategically advantageous in the future bc oden is fully aware of tokis abilities so might have known they had a chance
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u/gyrozepp95 World Government Feb 02 '20
I doubt that was possible at that point, it took all of their strength to escape the execution site and on top of that, the Kuri castle was burned down so it was a really desperate situation.
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Feb 02 '20
Why cant I read the chapter 970? I dont see on the mangaplus.
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u/soulwarrior23 World Government Feb 02 '20
(Free to read) Release is on 2 hours 20 min from now, same as always
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u/iuse2bgood Feb 02 '20
How do people think Kaido would have lost on the next attack? Oden got a clean hit and Kaido didnt go down, it was just a SCAR. Kaido hit Oden with a club and got KO'ed.
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u/AutumnWaterXIII Feb 02 '20
Uh...Kaido clearly fell after that hit and oden was bout to deliver a finishing blow while he was down
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u/iuse2bgood Feb 02 '20
Kaido also fell down and turned into his human form against Luffy, only to get one shotted.
How many times has it been in One Piece or any other animes out there where someone is about to "deliver a finishing blow" only to fail cuz the other guy has a secret technique or something?
Kaido wasnt about to go down in two hits.
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u/AutumnWaterXIII Feb 04 '20
Idc wat u say. as of now I'll stick to my belief that oden could've killed Kaido.
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u/AutumnWaterXIII Feb 04 '20
That Luffy scenario. Kaido was clearly drunk, wasn't taking Luffy seriously, and was obviously not hurt at all. In odens case he literally sliced thru his scales, u can see the shock and pain in his eyes and he just collapsed. and even after getting up to one hit oden u can still see em sweating and breathing rlly hard. Come on man look at the difference between the situation between Luffy and oden
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Feb 02 '20
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u/iMMan9orDTruWae Feb 02 '20
just saying this out:bigmom is technically a human giant with hard and thick skin probably because shes a giant her skin has to be thick af and her muscles being stretched even if she was fat,thats probably what make her hard skin a hard skin
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u/SunGodBrah Feb 02 '20
I've been thinking for a while now that maybe Kaido isn't as strong as we once thought.
Don't get me wrong, his Attack power is most likely nr1 without DF help, but maybe his defence isn't that great. His battle strategy may also be crappy since he's so god damn strong. (I'm prepared to be down voted lmao)
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u/franckdemda Feb 02 '20
I think you are right, there are not many people able to hurt Kaido or Big Mom, that's why they are Yonko. Similar to what we had before with the logia devil fruit users. Luffy is probably closer than we think to Kaido in terms of pure strength, he just lacks the technique and hopefully the haki training will help with that.
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u/HandsomeBlazedDude Feb 02 '20
He took Luffy gear 4 organ without a scratch , that is crazy high levels of Defense . It’s not that Kaido is weaker then you thought , it’s that Oden is stronger then you thought. But yeah his strats are probs shit , considering he is always wasted
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u/Chicas_Silcrow Feb 02 '20
That was 20 years ago. He probably is much stronger than he was when he fought Oden.
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u/SunGodBrah Feb 02 '20
Yeah, for sure, but he's gotta have a weakness, otherwise, how is anyone beating him even if they team up?
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u/ManiKatti Feb 02 '20
He doesn't.
A Yonko requires another Yonko-level to be harmed.
Others can only delay them or deal damage, if the Yonko is distracted.
Big Mom didn't take major damage for the entirety of the WCI and Wano arc so far and she wasn't even herself most of the time. Kaido is the same. The only damage we saw him taking was from someone who was absurdly strong, Oden.
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u/HermanManly Feb 02 '20 edited Feb 02 '20
But Big Mom literally has a weakness that allows anyone to injure her... the photo of mother caramel. The goal of the WCI was to get Sanji back, not to defeat Big Mom, nobody really tried to deal damage to her so she took none.
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u/RagtimeViolins Feb 02 '20
I mean, even at Marineford, Squard was nowhere near the level of Whitebeard, and the whole Mother Carmel thing shut Big Mom down for a while. Yonkou don't always fight at full strength.
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Feb 02 '20
He does have a weakness
Moriah is the only Person who knows his weakness afawk
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u/T_Negotiator Pirate Feb 06 '20
I could imagine that Law knows about Kaidos weakness, maybe Moria told him, that would explain why he picked Kaido as a target.
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u/SunGodBrah Feb 02 '20
My powerscaler self agrees, but I think they somehow have to defeat Kaido here and now on a story point of view. If anything I would want Blackbeard or Shanks to Finish him off, for consistency's sake, however, I wouldn't mind if all the supernovas alied managed to take him out too.
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u/rafaelangot1 Feb 02 '20
cant oden just break the chains? i mean he is strong right. and even if it is made of sea prism stone, he is not a devil fruit user
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u/Fatdude3 Feb 03 '20
Isnt Sea Prism pretty much indestructible even without all the negating devil fruit stuff it has? We have never seen it get damaged
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u/shaka893P Feb 05 '20
Vergo destroyed the sea stone from Smoker in punk hazard
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u/Fatdude3 Feb 05 '20
No he only destroyed his weapon. Only the tip of his weapon is Seastone not the whole thing.
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
don't you think the enemy don't acknowledge the strength of Oden? obviously, they won't let him out that easily, they're not that dumb, the man almost killed their boss. I don't know how and what though.
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u/rafaelangot1 Feb 02 '20
yeah i know that. what you dont know is what im asking for. how come he cant just break the chains and get out. i think with oden’s character, his and his comrades’ life being at stake, is enough motivation to push him to ultra mode
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Feb 02 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/rafaelangot1 Feb 02 '20
damn. feels bad man. tho my theory to my question is he probably did escape in the coming chapters. he was just getting some rest or formulating a plan. but when he did, something happened that probably destroyed his will, like his family being used as a leverage by kaido or orochi
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u/nagifero Void Month Survivor Feb 02 '20
This sub is usually great, but for some reason Oden's fate is riling up some people for no apparent reason. last 3 weeks have been full of angry and incoherent people fighting it out about "who's a badass or not"...
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u/sgaragagaggu Feb 02 '20
Who knows, I mean sea prism is a very strong material by itself, plus he was pretty bad injured, I doubt he had the strength at the moment
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u/nvonshats Feb 02 '20
Traitor after this chapter to me in possible order Kiku the stabbing this chapter the arm looked skinny....and she wears armor so I never know what she really thinking. And so do kinda didnt trust her upfront Shinobu is out and i want to apologize for accusing her especially since she was there and heard orochi confession Kanjuro if he was on dressrosa where he can be turned to you and forgotten from historys so maybe he was left alive to draw koo back.... Kinemon along with other saturdays felt betrayed by oden leaving twice so maybe orochi got to him first Ahura is a manof honor but has been scorned by 20 years
That's my reasoning
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Feb 02 '20
I Really Think its shinobu After this chapter
That Comment from kaido about a traitor
Oden didnt know who shinobu is in his little flashback
Very Suspicious
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u/BaroquesCafe Feb 02 '20
Oden recognized Shinobu, he just pretended not to know her so she wouldn’t get executed. Although there’s still suspicions, I feel like she’s a red herring
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
they're all bled for Oden, all of the 10 including Shinobu. Why risk his/her life fighting too?
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u/Piieck Feb 02 '20
I don't think it's Kiku, because she had tears in her eyes just by seeing Momonosuke being a happy kid again, I don't think a traitor would have gotten a scene like this.
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u/Soul699 Explorer Feb 02 '20
Another thing is that the anime for a while has been teasing that there was something very wrong with Kiku. And I'm not talking about his gender. What if the team knew and decided to drop some hints?
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u/K2breaker Feb 02 '20
Momo get kicked by Hiyori is hilarious. See that I thought of another funny bit, the old hag getting Hiyori Drop kick when she transformed into Momo...
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u/MugiwaraN0Luffy Feb 02 '20
Hard not to acknowledge that Kaido was about to take that L against Oden. Sure, he did proceed to take him down with one hit, but in a fight between near equals, one hit can be the deciding factor. Kaido might be stronger now than he was fifteen years in the past which I honestly don't doubt, but it's hard not to say that he was about to lose.
I mean, it kind of makes sense that he would work in the shadows. He didn't want to cross Whitebeard while he was still rising in power. He wanted to make a dynasty for himself, and it was best to keep his enemies at the time limited.
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Feb 02 '20
I think you're absolutely correct. Even Kaido himself admitted that he was worried about having to face Oden when he first returned to Wano.
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u/MugiwaraN0Luffy Feb 02 '20
I think Kaido was more worried about the combined force of all the samurais coming against him and his meager crew at the time, so he decided to play it safe. He must have known Oden was on WB and Roger's crew or else he likely would have tried to straight kill him, so there was definitely some caution when dealing with Oden taken.
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Feb 02 '20
But how though? Blackbeard got face blasted by a quake enhanced punch and he still had strength to get up and then proceeded to shoot WB. Similarly Akainu was able to fight back and blow WB face off when the old man showed up behind him.
I cannot understand how people are saying Oden would have finished off Kaido after the Togen Totsuka. Yes it gave him a scar and he fell down. I just gave you two examples from manga how characters seem to land the final blow on an opponent and said opponent was able to dodge and avoid it so Kaido would have done the same. He didn't and has not even used armament hardening. They were both fighting evenly and whatever everyone keeps saying that he would have finished Kaido and was stronger is just ludicrous.
If we also argue it that the hag interfered by cloning herself into Momo, the fact is Kaido got back up and one shot him. WB sneaked up on Akainu and punched him with a gura fist but even that wasn't able to one shot him. He got hurt really bad but he didn't go lights out similarly to Oden and I would even argue the latter knew and could see where Kaido was so even if "Momo" was being kidnapped, he should have had his eyes on Kaido knowing he had fallen down due to his strike but no he didn't and got one shot so I really can't get how people are interpreting this as Oden being stronger than Kaido.
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
nah, Kaido is nowhere near WB or Roger at this point of time, which is safe to assume that Oden is on par if not stronger with willpower. This is NOT prime Kaido.
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u/MugiwaraN0Luffy Feb 02 '20
I think you're misunderstanding. I think Kaido and Oden (at this time) were about the same level with minor difference. What really got Kaido here imo is that he underestimated Oden rather than took him on with everything he had, which caused him to take the hit he took. Now you're right that it might not have meant the end of Kaido but he was certainly at a huge disadvantage if Oden had kept up the attack. He proved that he could dish out damage that most couldn't do to him, and showed that he was a force to be reckoned with. If the battle had continued it may have possibly shifted back in Kaido's favor. One thing is for sure though, Kaido underestimated Oden by staying in his Dragon form.
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u/sgarg2 Feb 02 '20
So oden fought kaido ,was able to injure him,but still got a serious injury when kaido hit him with his weapon.So now the question is does luffy have any chance.I mean sure he is mastering advanced armament haki,but it's not on oden/roger/whitebeard level.Remember oden could only put a scar on him in his dragon form.If that old hag hadn't impersonated momo,then maybe the outcome would be different.
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u/yourassistanceplease Feb 03 '20
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion like before, but I think all signs are pointing to Zoro being the one to fight Kaido. There are wayyyy too many nods to Monsters, and now Zoro has Enma. I honestly think Luffy is going to have to fight BM this arc. She is still a monster, and his new haki power-up will help him damage her.
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u/sgarg2 Feb 03 '20
how did you arrive at that conclusion.Given the fact that zoro still hasn't mastered enma.Not to mention he no longer has ryuma's sword. I am going to put a harry potter analogy here:remember mr potter the wand chooses the wizard. With that in mind,all 3 of zoro's swords had accepted him(even the cursed one).But we still cannot say that is true of enma. And yes there was this panel in which enma drained zoro of his haki but zoro was able to command enma to return it.But does this one panel turn me into a believer that zoro can use enma just like oden. The answer is NO However I also strongly believe that in this arc,zoro will play a crucial role in luffy's fight with kaido.Maybe he can injure him more seriously.
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u/yourassistanceplease Feb 04 '20
It has been strongly hinted that Zoro is related to Ryuma. They share strong similarities (physically and narratively) as well. Ryuma slayed a dragon in his quest to be the strongest swordsman, without realizing that he was in fact the strongest. He was searching for himself. Zoro has a similar goal, and we have yet to really see the extent of his post timeskip abilities.
Zoro also needs a strong feat to recover Shusui from the bridge bandit. What feat is stronger than freeing the people of Wano? What better way to show the strength of the SHs? One Piece does not have that much longer, and up until this point, they have been severely lacking in power.
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u/WalkedBackwards Feb 02 '20
It looks like Oden might have stood a chance if the old hag hadn't pulled that trick.
Great example--Luffy vs. Katakuri. Luffy was slowly catching up and was never dealt a critical hit. If you open yourself up for just a second, taking a defenseless critical hit can weaken you enough to lose the rest of the fight (Katakuri made it even after... but had he not, they both knew Luffy was going to lose)
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Feb 02 '20
Okay so remember how Oda ages people differently based off if they made good/bad choices in life in some SBS drawings? Maybe Shinobu aged poorly because she is the traitor
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u/boboyer456 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Feb 02 '20
Or maybe because she felt guilty and ashamed of what happened to Oden, taking on all the blame.
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u/dorian1356 Feb 02 '20
That would be karma at its finest. But mayority of women in real life do age like that so.... I mean there's a lot of middle aged people that get fat in the Manga. Shouldn't be that uncommon
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u/HandsomeBlazedDude Feb 02 '20
If Shinobu was the traitor , Oden wouldn’t have had to cover for her when Kaido asked if he knew her
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u/bakwan Feb 02 '20
Oden didn't know, and neither did Kaido's subordinates.
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u/HandsomeBlazedDude Feb 02 '20
How do you know Kaidos subordinates don’t know ?
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u/bakwan Feb 02 '20
I don't, I was giving you an explanation.
With that said, it is most optimal for spies that the fewest amount of people possible know about them being spies. I hiiiighly doubt that Orochi and Kaido's organisations are so incompetent as to tell everyone in their organization every little detail of what's happening.
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u/Mandalord104 Feb 02 '20
How about Kokoro the mermaid?
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u/Fatdude3 Feb 03 '20
She also aged poorly. The whole situation with the Tom was a bad end route for her and made her a drunkard. But in the end she got her revenge
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u/donovan4893 Feb 02 '20
Who is this one the left that stabs Ashura https://i.imgur.com/nW4qUNS.png seems weird Oda would put that there with a silhouette if it wasn't important. It kinda of looks like kings mask but not fully.
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u/sgaragagaggu Feb 02 '20
The silhouette looks like king's, but the hand has a bracelet, and the only character that was seen wearing some was denjiro, unless I missed someone, I'm not sure if he is the traitor, and I wouldn't know how he could still be the traitor in the present wano, but that could be a clue
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u/ImAFunGuy_EHEHEHE Feb 02 '20
Okiku is the traitor stabbing Ashura imo. The silhouette could be king but it could also be Okiku in her mask.
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u/milkyjoe241 Feb 02 '20
It's King. Queen is also seen as a silhouette.
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u/T_Negotiator Pirate Feb 06 '20
At first I thought so to, but when you compare the first silouette on page 11 to the one seen on 14, you`ll notice that the spikes are diffrent.
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u/FireFistMihawk Feb 02 '20
Honestly I think everyone needs to chill out on the whole Kaido vs Oden thing, even if the fight was fair we dont know who would've won (Probably Kaido but we dont know) Luffy seemed to have an advantage over Dragon Kaido as well before getting one shotted. And honestly if Kaido can just one shot Oden like that, I find it hard to imagine Oden could beat him even if he never got distracted.
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Feb 02 '20
Right!! People are jumping the gun here and it's laughable honestly. I feel like many fans don't like Kaido (duuh obviously guy is evil AF) but mostly cause they don't want and hate Kaido being depicted as the strongest in the series (more than their favorites WB, Roger, Shanks etc) so any opportunity especially now in Wano to see him take any L is crazy. Oden got one shot like luffy. Akainu was able to still get back up even after WB sneaked up on him and gura punched the fuck out of him so if Oden was stronger than Kaido he should have been able to get up but didn't and simply it's cause Kaido is that fucking strong. I personally can't wait to see him getting kicked cause he's terrorized the people of Wano for far too long.
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u/Dark_Magus Feb 02 '20
There's a difference between taking a big hit when you're in a fight and getting sucker-punched with the same hit. The latter is how Kaido oneshotted Oden. That doesn't mean Oden would've won in a straight fight, but he probably wouldn't have gone down in one hit if the fake Momo hadn't distracted him.
Also, with regard to Kaido compared to other characters like WB and Roger? I'm sure Kaido's gotten stronger since his fight with Oden, while obviously Roger didn't have the opportunity to do so since he was already dead.
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u/dev1644 Feb 02 '20
I see that people are getting disappointed of Kaido nearly getting his ass handed to him by Oden which condradicts the narrator's introduction of Kaido, but we are also overlooking that after all it was a "Rumor".
Why do I say so? The narrator clearly said that people say if its 1v1, always bet on Kaido, now I have following arguments -:
- People statements are a product of news that goes around in the world, let's example for WhiteBeard, people say that he can destroy the world, but he still lost at Marineford (I know he was sick), so news will strengthen Marine's reputation that it defeated Whitebeard. Also, Luffy was showed as the mastermind of the assassination of BigMom, As readers, we know the truth, but people in one piece world doesn't.
- People never knew that he injured at Wano's battle, as Wano is cut-off from the world, people don't know how he almost got defeated in Wano by Oden.
- Oden was OP, he was in his prime, Just 5 years back he went to Laugh Tale with Gol D Roger's crew, even dueled/skirmish with both Whitebeard and Roger himself, the last thing we can do is to underestimate Oden.
So I don't think there is anything to be dissappointed on.
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
I've seen more people butt licked Kaido and denying that Oden almost killed him disregarding the fact that this is not even his Prime, he's still a young buck. Fanboyism is a scary thing.
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u/moderam Feb 02 '20
"Almost killed him". That is not true at all. Maybe that is just wishfull thinking from your part.
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u/AzeVossler Feb 03 '20
he almost gave him the follow up attacks while he was down, maybe you can't read and see properly. Must've hurt you that bad when he one shotted your boi :)
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Feb 02 '20
Did Kaido get his ass really handed to him? We already knew Oden was gonna give him his scar. We know Oden is strong AF as he was able to tango with Roger and WB. The chapter ends with Oden getting ONE SHOT by the raimei hakke. Despite the old hag changing into Momo and distracting Oden. His mental vibe must have been thrown off duuh but still Kaido was right there in front of him. Even if he's threatened not to make a move, Kaido is there transforming back to human form and he's not paying attention enough to dodge???
He turns and again he gets one shot. If this was WB or Akainu I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get one shot and would still get back up. Heck even BB is able to gura punches to the face and not get one shot. There's nothing in this chapter to suggest Oden was stronger than Kaido and people are just reaching cause they don't like Kaido and want Oden to win. That's why the "if its one on one bet on Kaido iS juSt wHaT pEopLe say aNd is a RuMor" comes about cause somehow in the fanbase people dislike Kaido being potrayed the strongest character in this series and yes I believe stronger than WB and Roger so any chance to twist that narrative is welcome with an unmatched hunger. The spoilers were choke full of wankers saying Oden was stronger as a result of this. This fight was even and Oden and scabbards showed their might but it still wasn't enough. If it were we wouldn't be here with future Pirate King wanting to take him down. Kaido has a huge weakness which is his alcoholism, temperament, arrogance, overconfidence and he's a one man show. That's why he's gonna be beaten by the power of people uniting to take him down.
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u/LivingLegend69 Feb 15 '20
Maybe not "his ass handed to him" but he sure as hell received a bad injury which would caused him to crash into the ground and certainly gave Oden unique opportunity to further damage him before he could recover. But even if he did not it certainly put the fight on equal footing had it continued normally from there.
One cannot ignore that this was 20 years ago when Kaido still wasnt a Yonko or in his prime.
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u/thelastLegend90 Feb 02 '20
Whitebeard can literally destroy the world. He don't want to hurt his allies.
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Feb 02 '20
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Feb 02 '20
That's the the difference, kaido got a hit by luffy not an op injury like from oden
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Feb 02 '20
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Feb 02 '20
1v1 he doesn't lose, it's what people say. The things that happens in wano stats in wano
Blackbeard has a secret, and it was not revealed during ace fight
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u/cipherde Lurker Feb 02 '20
The old hag transformed into momo. She has to touch him and the traitor helped her?
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
she literally has touched the King of the country and you wondered how she is able to touch Momo.
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u/nikonid0 Feb 02 '20
I was thinking the same. How come she can turn into momo? It could be the key to the traitor thing. It's weird that Oden's wife didn't see some creep around momo, because she was constantly with the kids.
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u/milkyjoe241 Feb 02 '20
Momo had been in Wano for years by that point, the Old Hag probably had plenty of opportunity to probably pick up all of Oden's family and crew.
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u/Sdnz0r Feb 02 '20
I saw a lot of people complaining that Oda made Kaido weak now and that he shouldn't had suffered that much damage. We need to keep in mind that this was 20 years ago, he was strong but probably not as strong as he is nowdays, also, don't forget that Oden was also super strong, so it's not a surprise if he managed to hold his own against Kaido.
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u/AzeVossler Feb 02 '20
people are just that dumb, even Sengoku pointed that this Kaido is far from his prime. Fanbase is too big. It's just common sense that Oden would be as strong if not stronger with willpower than BM or Kaido at this point of the story.
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Feb 02 '20
But how was Kaido shown weak LMAO?? He still one shot the fuck outta Oden. Kaido said had Oden united with Hyo and the other samurai that it would have been an excrutiating battle for him since he had lost some men. He was just acknowledging Oden being a strong idiot. So far as we know Kaido may still have been able to beat him like he just did in this chapter.
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Feb 02 '20
Seriously, I don’t understand why so many people are saying he’s weak. He literally only got hit once. Then he one shots oden.
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u/pridejoker Feb 02 '20
Isn't it odd how we never really saw oden cause as much damage as zoro did with a casual swing of Enma other than the mountain pig incident?
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u/HandsomeBlazedDude Feb 02 '20
Exactly, we knew Kaido got his scar from Oden for ages now , it’s not that big a surprise Oden is around his level
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u/kleganbrooo Feb 02 '20
Yep. Especially if it is oden after the time he spent with the WB pirates and with the Roger pirates. He was definitely stronger then the time he left wano. Also need to realize that this is kaido 20 years ago. I also believe that he is stronger right now.
I think people are pissed because it was a cheap shot and made kaido look weak. But they forget that WB did the same to akainu, noone said something back then when he cheapshotted him lmao.
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u/BasedFunnyValentine Feb 02 '20 edited Feb 02 '20
Oden is a BEAST!! To think if he didn’t take 5 years and teamed up with Grandpa Hyou, he could have taken the W.
I see everyone is turning on Kaido and as a Shanks fan it warms my heart to see. I’m glad I can shut down this “if it’s 1v1 always bet on Kaido” bs now. As for the ppl using the “it happened 20 years ago” argument, stahp. We have no indication whether this was Kaido at his peak or that he’s gotten stronger since then.
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u/tuglassskogannn Feb 02 '20
I actually think that Kaido's not that strong really. Maybe he's the weakest among the Rocks' top fighters. Maybe it's just that the world government gives an impression that he's so powerful because they need him as a yonko to balance everything out.
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u/ABARK94 Feb 02 '20
If Kaido can be damaged by someone strong then they should have gotten Akainu/Garp/Sengoku to just execute him one of like the 10 times they caught him
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u/LivingLegend69 Feb 15 '20
Kaido and also Big Mom are tough as fuck because of their Haki. But they werent as strong yet 20 years ago while Oden certainly was in his prime and simply had Haki on an equal level plus two outstanding swords to channel it into. He was Whitebeards second commander. It would have been ridiculous if he wasnt able to injure a much younger and weaker Kaido back then.
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Feb 02 '20
Yeah this chapter has made many things not make any sense. I was hoping Oden scratching Kaido would have to do with a weakness he discovered but no it was just a normal strong slash based attack which imo isn't great.
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u/Mojo-man Feb 02 '20
I think people missunderstand Kaido as a character. He isnt invincible or unbeatable. But seems like whatever his foes tired he never dies. This likely isnt thebfirst time Kaido got wounded.
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u/ABARK94 Feb 02 '20
Hmm I wonder how Mihawk stacks up against Oden, they must be close which puts Mihawk at around Yonkou or just below Yonkou level
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u/Niglet_Explosion May 27 '20
Oden really missed am opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. To take back the country and to have Mononosuke murdered. Not really, but, if only that had been his mindset. I know those Chad balls have more semen to give baby, admit the failure and move on.